Eyewitnesses: Two Shooters Involved in UCSB Massacre 196

crime-sceneUpdated 5/29/14, 12:02AM ET: SB Police dispatch audio indicates “two suspects in custody with gunshot wounds.”

Frequently initial eyewitness accounts of violent crime scenes prove especially helpful for independent researchers to piece together what actually may have transpired. For example, in the aftermath of the major political assassinations of the late 1960s, the Oklahoma City Murrah Federal Building bombing, or more recent mass shootings such as Tucson, Aurora, and Sandy Hook, subsequent official accounts of potential culprits can vary significantly from those of first-hand witnesses. 

This may also be the case concerning the tragic May 23 shooting in Isla Vista, California. In this event numerous witnesses claim two men were inside the black BMW and proceeded to carry out a number of “drive by” shootings. Note, however, that this is not what has been imbued in to the popular memory over the past few days. The two pairs of local press reports below suggest differing accounts before and after the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s 2:30AM press conference on May 24, where Sheriff Bill Brown confirmed a sole suspect, Elliot Rodger, and pointed to his YouTube video rant as sufficient evidence to indict him in the court of public opinion.

On May 27 MHB contacted the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Office to request an incident report. The SBS asserts that the agency only provides such reports to those directly impacted by the crime, and that in this case even direct involvement may not be sufficient cause for release of the report.-JFT

Audio from SB Police dispatch indicates officers cautioned from entering Isla Vista crime scene area, and confirmation of “two suspects with gunshot wounds in custody.” From The Kev Baker Show, 5/26/14.

[ORIGINAL REPORT]

From News Channel 3-E News

Original Post May 24, 2014 12:33AM

Witnesses described seeing a black BMW speeding through the streets, spraying bullets at people and various targets near El Embarcadero and Segovia Roads and the top of the loop along Del Playa in Isla Vista.

The time frame between the first 911 call to the discovery of the dead suspect was ten minutes.

Multiple witnesses say they saw two people inside the suspect’s vehicle, however, during the press conference, Sheriff Brown would neither confirm nor deny whether there was a passenger in the car.

At this time, the sheriff is not releasing the suspect’s name, although he has been identified.

Brown called the suspect “severely mentally disturbed” and said, “This was a premeditated mass murder.”

Word on the street quickly spread about an ominous YouTube video posted by a young man who identified himself as Elliot Rodger, titled “Retribution.” The nearly seven minute long rant blasts women who’ve ignored or rejected him over the past eight years and warns that he will “punish you all for it.”

When questioned about the video during the news conference, Sheriff Brown indicated investigators were familiar with it and are looking into whether Roger was connected with the crime.

The victims include someone who was shot dead inside the I.V. Delimart on Pardall Road. The market windows are pocked with bullet holes. Another crime scene is marked near the 7-11 convenience store.

Xavier Mozejewski told NewsChannel 3 reporter Victoria Sanchez that he witnessed some of the violence and described it as an “old western shoot-out.”

Michael Vitak, a student from the Czech Republic, told Sanchez what he witnessed.

“Guys in a BMW. Maybe they were trying to prove they’re tough,” Vitak said during a live televised interview. Vitak saw them shooting at two girls; one was shot dead, the other was critically hurt.

“I heard shots, screams, pain,” said Vitak. “All emotions. I hope she is going to be fine,” he said.

Vitak said it was too dark to see the suspects’ faces.

About the same time the drive-by shootings occurred, the California Highway Patrol website logged a hit and run along Del Playa that left someone with major leg and head trauma.

NewsChannel 3 senior reporter John Palminteri said via phone, “It is a horrible scene out here.”

Palminteri described multiple ambulances, a black BMW that slammed into as many as two cars, and a body covered with a yellow tarp lying in the road on Del Playa. He indicated the deceased may have been shot by a deputy or police officer.

By 12:15 a.m. Saturday morning, Palminteri updated viewers that he’d seen a total of four body bags.

One woman identified as Sierra told Sanchez she was approached by two men in a black BMW. The driver flashed a small black handgun and asked ‘”Hey, what’s up?”‘

[UPDATED REPORT]

From News Channel 3-E News

ISLA VISTA, Calif. –

Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown revealed new details about Friday night’s drive by shootings in Isla Vista during a Saturday morning news conference, including a new death toll and a possible link to an ominous YouTube video.

Brown said the initial call came in to dispatch at 9:27 p.m. Friday night as multiple gunshots.

Deputies in the area found several victims and received information about the suspect and vehicle involved.

Witnesses described seeing a black BMW speeding through the streets, spraying bullets at people and various targets near El Embarcadero and Segovia Roads and the top of the loop along Del Playa.

Brown said at 9:33 p.m. the suspect exchanged gunfire with deputies then veered down Del Playa and crashed into a parked car. Deputies found the suspect inside the BMW dead from a gunshot wound to the head. Brown said he did not know if the suspect was shot and killed by deputies or if the wound was self-inflicted.

The sheriff said a semi automatic handgun was recovered from the scene and believes the suspect acted alone.

[ORIGINAL REPORT]

From the Santa Barbara Independent

Originally published May 23, 2014, 10:00PM

According to the latest unconfirmed reports, three people were killed and seven injured in a series of Isla Vista shootings that occurred around 9:30 p.m. on Friday night. One of the suspects was also reportedly killed, and another is in custody. Multiple locations are being treated as crime scenes, most around the UCSB college town’s central loop.

The incident occurred at the I.V. Deli Mart, the 7-11 near the bottom of the loop, and on streets nearby, including the 6500 block of Del Playa, where one body lay beneath a tarp near a black BMW that was crashed near the curb with a broken windshield. This matched the description of the car that, according to multiple witnesses, carried the shooter. Other reports suggest that a bicyclist and other pedestrians may have been run over as well.

Santa Barbara authorities investigate I.V. Deli, where one of the victims was reportedly shot and killed

Click to enlarge photo

Paul Wellman

Santa Barbara authorities investigate I.V. Deli, where one of the victims was reportedly shot and killed

One of the incidents occurred on Embarcadero del Norte between Cordoba and Segovia roads, where a Santa Barbara City College student named Thomas said he heard as many as 20 gunshots.

A second crime scene was inside the Isla Vista Deli Mart, at 6553 Pardall Road, where the old Isla Vista Bookstore used to be. According to the deli’s owner, one of his customers, which he believed to be a male, was hit by bullets shot from a car outside the market and died on scene.

“This seems to be ground zero,” said The Santa Barbara Independent’s news editor Tyler Hayden, who was on scene, though he reported the response on the streets was mixed. “Some people are curious what the hell is going on, and others are cruising around with 18-packs.”

Police block off a crime scene on Pardall Road

Click to enlarge photo

Paul Wellman

Police block off a crime scene on Pardall Road

The Sheriff’s Office spokesperson would only confirm that there are multiple scenes and multiple victims and that the situation is fluid.

The third crime scene visited by Hayden was the 7-11 in the new Isla Vista Icon development. Two men in handcuffs were being questioned there in full view of a small crowd. That crowd cheered when one of them was put inside the law enforcement vehicle around 11:25 p.m. Officials said the men had refused orders to stay out of the crime scene areas.

Anecdotal yet unconfirmed reports from the Isla Vista streets suggest that the vehicle involved was a black BMW with a passenger shooting a handgun.

There appears to be another body under a tarp near 6583 Del Playa Drive, according to Hayden. Nearby is a black BMW, matching the description of the vehicle witnesses say was involved in the shooting spree, and its front windshield is smashed in.

[REVISED REPORT]

From the Santa Barbara Independent

Originally published May 24, 2014, 4:00AM

A lone gunman killed six people and injured seven more during a shooting rampage Friday night in Isla Vista that Sheriff Bill Brown called “the work of a madman.” The suspect was killed after firing on responding deputies, but it’s not clear if the fatal wound to his head was self-inflicted or the result of return fire.

The seven injured victims are being treated at Santa Barbara Cottage hospital — some for gunshot wounds, others for trauma sustained when the suspect crashed his car as he was pursued — and one recently underwent surgery for life-threatening injuries.

Initial reports suggested that two suspects were involved in the shooting, but Brown said during a 2:30 a.m. press conference Saturday morning that the gunman acted alone. Brown said the man was armed with a semi-automatic handgun and that investigators are working to determine if other weapons were involved.

The names of the victims and the suspect have not been released. Brown, however, confirmed that written and video material left by 22-year-old Elliot Rodger of Calabasas in the hours and days leading up to the shooting is being reviewed as evidence in the massacre. “It appears to be connected,” he said.

In a YouTube video titled “Elliot Rodger’s Retribution” and posted the day before the shooting, Rodger — a Santa Barbara City College Student and Isla Vista resident, according to his social media accounts — laments his life of “loneliness, rejection, and unfulfilled desires.” He blames women for throwing themselves at “obnoxious brutes” but rejecting him, “the supreme gentlemen.”

196 comments

    • Thank you for posting, interesting to read his speculations. Sadly he does not provide enough links to back up his claims. And when I look up what Bloeser really said it turns out he really said something else. But still, an interesting link.

      ER talks like a programmed robot on one hand and like a repressed homosexual on the other. What kind of man says “I’m magnificent”, “I’m fabulous” et c. And when he talks about girls it sounds very contrived, “I am attracted to girls” he says like a robot.

      Where are his real feelings, he sounds like his is doing a presentation on a subject in school! He talks about the most hart wrenching things, yet he shows no real emotions; no tears, no long pauses, no rage, no violent gestures.

      He seems detached from everything, mind controlled.

      Like

  1. There’s something very peculiar about Rodger’s video and written diatribes, it’s as though he didn’t really feel the misogynistic grievances he was expressing, but rather was using the almost cliched expressions of masculine sexual resentment as a “dog whistle” directed specifically at those already deranged male individuals pre-susceptible to the hypnotic sway of a harangue composed of such unoriginal cliches and formulas (reminiscent, in fact, of Hollywood productions), for the purposes of provoking in (male) others mirror states of violence and destructive rage, while himself remaining psychopathically aloof from the pettiness of such resentment and ulteriorly motivated by a purer (i.e. indiscriminate, totalizing) sort of sadism, the kind that, in fact, equates the murder of (oblivious) humans to the achievement of apotheosis.

    Like

  2. http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/28/opinion/robbins-mental-health-rodger/

    I strongly urge people to read this article, and the ones detailing the impending legislation. Above, the author lies outright. She claims”

    “Under our current mental health laws, at every turn, the adults did what the law specifies. The parents knew their son had major mental health problems and had him in treatment since he was in elementary school. They increased that treatment when he got worse as a teenager.
    According to Rodger’s writings, multiple mental health professionals were treating him and prescribed him anti-psychotic drugs. The parents and the professionals were in contact with one another and notified authorities after Rodger had exhibited some alarming behavior. The police responded to requests from Rodger’s family to check on his well-being and found him to be “apparently shy, timid, polite, well-spoken” and did nothing, as mandated by the law.”

    ‘The adults’ did not do what the law specifies. A ‘welfare check’ has nothing whatsoever to do with a psychiatric evaluation. They are totally different and this woman knows she is lying, in my opinion – if she’s even who and what she says she is to begin with.

    How is this getting past the american people? The system is already insanely totalitarian. The cops were legally obligated to either call in a screener or to take Elliot to the ER. The 72 hour hold is a period in which screeners can call anyone they want to find out information and background on a subject, and anyone who finds out a person is there can call and make any kind of accusation or allegation about that person without them having any recourse or being allowed to pose any kind of challenge to it whatsoever. For instance, say you have a family member who for any variety of sick reasons wants you committed. They can call up and say anything, while the ‘patient’ has no opportunity to have friends or co-workers, etc., come in and challenge the assertions.

    That policy of anyone being able to make accusations or allegations about someone imprisoned while the inmate (for that is what it is, a form of imprisonment and worse when forced medication is on the itinerary) continues throughout any citizen’s period of imprisonment. There is no due process where an accuser has to face the accused and be questioned or challenged. The accused has no opportunity to bring in ‘friendly’ witnesses.

    We are already living under a psych system stasi state, yet they aren’t satisfied. Another orwellian aspect of things as they stand is that by federal law, any person who is ‘committed’ cannot be discharged to the street. I actually know a woman who has manic depression and who was imprisoned for five years! in a state psychiatric institution simply because she had nowhere to go, and no way to build a way to get out. She was only symptomatic for a couple of months (I am not her BTW).

    So this notion that the cops ‘followed the law’ is again what this whole hoax pivots on. I’m even wondering if they’ve set it up with Elliot’s mother allegedly calling the county agency, who then called the sheriff’s department, instead of the local municipality as a way to avoid the fact that any municipality would BY LAW have to call for a psych evaluation under normal circumstances:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_Vista,_California

    Turns out, I might be right. Isla Vista is an ‘unincorporated community’ which means, in California, that there is no municipal power governing it. Wouldn’t it be just so coincidental if the laws regarding psychiatric evaluations don’t apply in the same way to county agencies? Which is not to imply that the the sheriff’s deputies couldn’t call in a screener or force Elliot to the ER for one – just that by law/policy they didn’t *have to.*

    H-O-A-X

    Like

    • It’s interesting everything you say here about wanting more legislation, apparently, than what already exists, to deal with a person who is considering dangerous to himself or others. I think that is the criterion for commitment, but I do not know how it works from one state to another. There was an old case in California, actually, I think at UCLA, where a male in therapy expressed his desire to kill a former girlfriend. The therapist (psychiatrist?) considered the therapist-patient confidentiality too important to break by notifying authorities, and the patient went on to kill the girlfriend. This led to the disclosure laws, where such an instance made the shrink a mandated reporter (sex abuse of children was added in later). I don’t really know the law, as you can see, on this, but I do not think a family is helpless in the circumstance that they know about dangerousness. The question is whether it rises to a certain threshold of dangerousness.

      I will just point out again what someone else has noticed – that “ER” also stands for Elliot Rodger, reminding me of the “911” first responder drill that apparently went live. I suppose we can ask whether there ever was such a person as Elliot Rodger, or whether he is a fictional component of a drill/ ad campaign/ political push poll. He may be no more real than Adam Lanza/ Ryan Lanza/ whoever. As someone also pointed out here, lophatt I think, the professional lighting and miking of his rants seemed to involve at least one other person. They were not possible (according to that standard) as “selfies” even though that is how they are billed.

      Like

      • The case is “Tarasoff” whose facts somewhat resemble this one, where the campus police go (at the behest of the psychiatrist of the future murderer of Tarasoff) to question the person and determine his state of mind and dangerousness. They are convinced by him in conversation that there is no danger to the victim.

        The problem involved whether a psychiatrist and officials are under a duty to notify third parties to whether someone is dangerous, and also how much discretion the police have to carry out the commitment of the person, also how much the mandate extends to the therapist/psychiatrist to report every ideation of every patient which tends towards violence.

        I would doubt that the solution to preventing such events as the one alleged near another UC, though not at it, lies in stricter legislation aimed at preventing violent attacks, because I am sure the law is adequate as it stands but that some things cannot be predicted. It then comes down to a post-crime question of liability in hindsight, and whether some civil remedy like a judgement in favor of a plaintiff family can be decided.

        The opinions in Tarasoff (California Supreme Court decision) and law review articles afterwards, do question the wisdom of widespread round-ups of people for examination without discretion on the part of law enforcement. One article states that once someone is in custody, the need to prove he is no longer dangerous usually will err on the side of caution, leaving a lot of people locked up who should be free. I think a close reading of the case law on the subject might yield some motivation if this is another drill/hoax, at creating more stringent laws and regulations, more control and more mental hospitals.

        There also seems a lot of evidence this ER case turns on claiming that an the additional duty may be, in assessing dangerousness by law enforcement, to check up on the person’s online persona and not to let him go until he is cleared there. That would seem to be the goal of this exercise, launching the training of police personnel or hiring contractors who would be able to sort through clues while the person is in custody. Therefore merely holding a person in a hospital would not be enough. You’d have to download his online persona as well to determine whether you could let him go. Creepy, huh? Or at any rate this seems the object of the exercise. His own words are not enough. You must find out if he has published a manifesto or frequented certain blogs which might reinforce antisocial acts.

        Like

      • musings, are you not getting that law enforcement is not supposed to determine dangerousness?

        Also ‘danger’ to oneself or others has to be by dint of ‘mental illness.’ Who is to determine when aggression is a function of ‘mental illness’ or not? The psych system is going to tell us when evil is evil and when it’s somehow not?

        Like

      • They are not supposed to make the ultimate determination of dangerousness, but they are in some instances the people who show up on the doorstep before there is a commitment to an ER. I would simply posit this idea due to talking points I have read about this case of the other ER – that whether or not they turn around and walk away rather than phone for an ambulance may change due to social media criteria developing. That was my only point.

        Taking it down a notch, you can see that cops are often called to domestic problems, to places where there is a disruptive person confronting people on the sidewalk – they have tons of experiences with people far more simple than ER – and in some instances they put the person under arrest and someone (a magistrate) commits them for observation. But in new models of how law enforcement is done, there may be some other pathway being developed which bears watching. That pathway would be generated perhaps by push-polling into existence some new legislation which supposedly is “better”.

        I realize many cops play judge, jury and executioner all too often. But I would not advocate that.

        Like

      • To add here, musings, I’m pretty certain that the laws/criteria governing commitment are federal; apparently at some point someone challenged the notion of imprisoning people without a fair and speedy trial. But the Supreme Court of the US found that somehow the committal process *did* conform with that clause in the Constitution, which is bizarre because there is nothing remotely approaching ‘fair’ or a ‘trial,’ in committals.

        One reason I’ve pushed this theme so much on here is because I figured out some time ago that the only way for them to dismantle our constitution is to chisel away at this weakness in our interpretation of it. Everything else is sound enough to prevent total tyranny from taking over, more or less. But if you read either of the first two bills that are being passed (I have to review the third again) the fact is that our Bill of Rights is essentially meaningless once either becomes law.

        Or perhaps it already is if you go by the Seventh Circuit in Wisconsin:
        http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/05/20/shock-fedgov-court-ruling-police-can-kick-door-seize-guns-without-warrant-charges/

        Like

  3. Here’s a summation of the bills that are being considered:
    http://news.yahoo.com/why-congress-targets-mental-health-not-gun-control-203055895.html

    The most extreme wants to imprison and drug people at the whim of the state, with no criteria other than that someone thinks they ‘need treatment.’ And of course the bill wants families involved, because the psych system knows that most people who are deemed ‘mentally ill’ who don’t actually have schizophrenia or manic depression are generally people who’ve been scapegoated by both socioeconomic dynamics *and* by their families. Since emotional issues, as opposed to real mental illnesses, usually do start with people’s families the psych system loves to drag it’s prisoners back into the familial fold. I knew a psychologist who said families trying to scapegoat one of the members for certain members’ dysfunction is very typical. They say in alcoholic families the non-addict tends to be the rest’s scapegoat.

    The bill also calls for forced outpatient medicating of the ‘mentally ill,’ a disease which the ‘doctors’ still refuse to define.

    Like

    • Would rate yahoo news right down there with wiki or cnn for reporting factual information.

      Here we have news that the house has voted for funding to enforce current laws of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. What are the chances crazy old harry will allow a vote on this one?

      http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/207667-house-takes-action-on-guns

      What are the chances the left will ever admit it was wrong to release the mentally ill to the streets as they declared it was more humane to give them freedom as opposed to food and shelter?

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      • Kathy how do you define ‘mentally ill?’ Do you think a ‘diagnosis’ can be given without empirical scientific evidence?

        Most of the people imprisoned before the laws were changed probably weren’t schizophrenic or manic depressives, and besides, there were medications like lithium already available back then to treat manic depression pretty effectively.

        Do you know that your ex could have had you committed, and possibly lobotomized and/or imprisoned for life, before those laws were changed?

        People really might consider researching the history of psychiatry. It began with Freud claiming WHITE women were ‘mentally ill’ when they reported being sexually abused, usually by male family members. At first Freud admitted his patients’ neuroses were due to this childhood sexual abuse, but when the rich (and there wasn’t much of a middle class in his time and place) didn’t like that (as his patients were the rich) he changed his tune and started saying women were ‘imagining’ these abuses.

        This is the origin of the psych establishment. Men could get women committed with almost no problem and did all the time…to get rid of unwanted unruly wives, etc. etc.

        Until a ‘doctor’ shows me a medical test that proves someone has ‘manic depression’ or schizophrenia I say BS. For the record, as someone who has researched this, I’ve never met a truly manic depressive person who denied they suffered from the genetic disease. They come down from their mania and remember their hallucinations. Schizophrenics don’t know they’re hallucinating in some way, but it’s blatantly obvious to any lucid person.

        There is no need for the psych system, it’s purely a repression of any challenges to the class system. No one needs a ‘degree’ to identify when someone has schizophrenia or is truly psychotic – hallucinating.

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  4. They would like us to believe that they are winning and to cower down and accept the inevitable.

    The fact that commentators on this blog spotted the latest hoax before the ink was dry on the first reports, tells me America is waking up. Have no need to view all the videos, that are sure to be jam packed with proof of the hoax. The tactics are all too familiar now, perhaps with a new twist on the goals.

    We have entered campaign mode for the next election and already they are declaring the prime blond haired candidate for the 2016 presidential election is being picked on by those dirty bugger conspiracy theorists.

    Let’s not forget the all popular war on woman campaign was very successful the last go around. Apparently folks believed the millionaire, 31 year old. female student who declared that free birth control was the biggest worries of females and the Republicans are so against that they must hate women. She recently ‘donated’ $100,000 of her personal money to her state senate campaign fund in CA.

    Yes, I am happy to be a woman and was raised on how to deal with those not desired in my life and how to use my feminism to my advantage.

    Like

    • Kathy, clarify for me

      Yes, I am happy to be a woman and was raised on how to deal with those not desired in my life and how to use my feminism to my advantage.

      Do you mean feminism? or femininity?

      Like

      • Not sure what the difference is, but yes femininity is probably the better choice of words.

        There was a time I was bitter with the thought that this is a male chauvinistic world and all men must be as bad as my ex.

        Then realized, there were men who genuinely wanted to help me succeed and did.

        To find a life partner with the same goals and outlooks as yourself, might be rare, but fortunate I was. Can’t help but feeling judged by some female ‘friends’ that I give to much, but already know it is impossible to explain the dynamics of a loving relationship to them.

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        • Kathy,
          At first I thought I was going to describe what the difference of these two words meant to me, but I am speechless, and humbled by your reply. Thank you.

          Like

      • Thanks Rich – felt compelled to understand the difference between feminism and femininity, as I should already know. Feminism was born in the early sixties, right along with the civil rights movement. They both have their place in history, but as the Supreme Court has recently ruled, it is illegal to discriminate against whites based on their race when college admissions are concerned.

        fem•i•nism
        : the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities
        : organized activity in support of women’s rights and interests

        fem•i•nin•i•ty
        : the quality or nature of the female sex

        Well of course I believe men and women should have equal rights and opportunities and know women have made great progress in this regard. Many studies comparing wages do not offer valid results, there are many high paying jobs that I could not physically do, due to my stature. Many women make career choices that put family ahead of a grueling, professional commitments, it is all good.

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        • Kathy, first-wave feminism started in the 19th century and mostly concerned the effort to get women the vote. If it wasn’t for this movement women probably would not have the ability to vote today. That’s one answer to Rich’s question about what feminism has achieved. Second-wave feminism is the one that started in the 1960s and was aligned with the civil rights movement. A lot of what this movement achieved was workplace laws, the ability to press sexual harassment charges in the office, more equal pay, reproductive rights, shelters for rape and domestic abuse victims, maternal leave for women, and changing cultural stereotypes about women and their roles as only mothers and wives.

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          • Butterfly, You will get no argument from me regarding the injustices you list. The problem I have with what you call 2nd wave feminism is the strange vibe I get regarding the reversal of male and female roles that feminist label as traditional when in fact I would disagree and call them innate. It seems more like gender is being erased, along with the family unit. No one will ever convince me that family, and the female role inside of it is a conspiracy going back to the beginning of time to subjugate women. It is my firm belief there is some serious conditioning going on with all of this, and it has caused a great disruption in society. Now I don’t blame this all on women feminists. Men fell for the whole sexual revolution hook line and sinker too. Yippee! free sex, no commitment, wham bam and I’m outta here! I think it has led to a lot more damaged people, fatherless homes, and Prozac. Look at the number of mental maladies on the books today. We are in serious trouble.

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          • A goal of second-wave feminism was not to reverse roles, but to have people be defined not only by their gender roles. This was a much more crucial issue back when women had to fight tooth and nail to be taken seriously as more than just mothers and wives in case they had other plans for themselves. Women now enjoy the right not to have to be defined by their femininity, so now you get a wide variety of women who fall everywhere on the scale from ultra-feminine to ultra-butch. I do think that some of the ’70s feminists got ugly-angry and that this is how we remember the feminism of that time. But their strategy was to not to try to get their way by being feminine, nice, passive, and pretty for a change. This strategy worked much better than if they had been more passive, but it made them very hated and maligned by men. Feminists are still the women helping other women who suffer from domestic abuse, helping women to exit the sex industry, and educating women about their options and their strengths. They still do very important work.

            Like

      • Actually pb, the Women’s Suffrage movement has been going on since the beginning of recorded time, where different societies have bequeathed females many varieties of rights.

        I certainly appreciate all the battles fought and won, and am only insulted when some authority tells me the $10 a month prescription to make me free, should be free.

        The Feminism word was created in the ’60s.

        Hate to quote wiki, but it is a quick source of the real suffrage, assuming some of it is true…

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage

        Like

        • For someone who had to look up the difference between feminism and femininity, you’ve certainly become an authority.

          The women’s movement is generally considered to have started in the 19th century with what is now called first-wave feminism. It was the first time that anything resembling an actual movement could be defined.

          Like

  5. I would also like to add to my list of questions (we might expect some faux attempt at an answer within the next six hour news cycle turnover, as TPTB are reading as we type…):

    How was Elliot able to function in school? Had he been attending classes? What kind of course load was he taking? No failed classes this semester or the previous…no deterioration in performance? What year was he in?

    Why hadn’t his roommates found housing for the fall semester yet? When I went to a college where most students came from out of the area, we had to have our living situations lined up by middle of spring semester for fall. This is another sleight of protocol, as it were. We’re supposed to be avoiding examining how Elliot was going to proceed when no one wanted to live with him for the next semester.

    Etc. etc. It’s all crap. Lophatt, just because people are checking with their own personal experiences of sociopaths, narcissistic young men, etc., doesn’t mean we all believe in this character. I’m simply comparing to real life and nothing matches up at all.

    Since Napolitano runs the UC system it’s not hard to imagine her rigging a situation where students get extra credit for showing up at the rally for ‘Not one more!’

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  6. Please go to Youtube and look up Red Pill Revolution and his latest video which recaps the evidence that this is a total HOAX. I’ll try and post the video, but haven’t had much luck here lately with posts getting through (especially when there’s a video included). Video title is: Santa Barbara Shooting Hoax CASE CLOSED: Smoking Gun Evidence Recap by Red Pill Revolution.

    Also, check out Free Radio Revolution’s latest videos of the ridiculous witnesses being brought forth on ABC News. And, check out ReviewManify’s channel for a lot of great coverage as well.

    Like

      • I think Stevan Molyneux video was very good. He made many good observations. It is a very complex story.

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      • Thanks, mangrove, and to everyone who has done such great research and provided links and sources for investigation. It really means a lot to me that there are people out there who actually care to invest their time and energy to finding and championing the truth.

        When I saw the video of Rugg, the ex-roommate, it decided me that this is almost certainly pure hoax, especially since Rugg is mentioned in the manifesto. Although the possibility exists that he was added into it in the direct aftermath of the killings. But overall this clinches things for me. It’s so unbelievable. Besides Rugg’s delivery, the sheer content of this speech just seems totally lacking in authenticity and spontaneity. We’re to believe that he looks back and just wants to ‘help’ ‘poor Elliot’ who the ‘community’ should have ‘reached out to and taken care of.’ Gag me.

        Any semi-normal person would look back and express maybe some guilt, sorrow and regret for the victims, not the freaking murderer! Elliot allegedly killed six innocent (and young!) people! But this Rugg character feels sorry for Elliot?! Theoretically he could have been slashed to death by Elliot! He claims, according to some articles, to have heard the ‘withdrawn’ but not actually rejected Elliot ‘clicking his gun’ – in the most gun-phobic state in the country – but didn’t tell anyone? Not even the school authorities? Or the cops?

        The depiction of Elliot as a sympathetic sociopath – more sympathetic than totally innocent victims – just pushes beyond the limits of any believability for me. And the idea that when a normal young person would be realizing that it could have been him, and that he’d missed a chance to prevent a hateful monster from murdering other young people who were innocent, just like him, he instead is full of regret for not thinking more of such a spoiled, venomous vile rich primadonna psychopath…is just too much.

        C.S. Lewis pretty much nails the psych system:

        “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

        But for sure the people running it aren’t going to heaven, nor do they even believe in good or bad, or a moral universe affording redemption or retribution. They are pure sociopaths, and they are as Patrickchatsamiably says, winning.

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      • Col. Bat Guano, Stefan Molyneux spent a LOT of time talking about a “problem” that only exists as part of the hoax storyline regarding this Elliot Rodger character (who is likely enjoying early retirement incognito somewhere far from Santa Barbara). Molyneux is essentially supporting the official story. Reminds me of all the analyses of why Muslims took down the towers. As if.

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        • I agree with you. The only part of this event that is provably a hoax atm in my pov is the reporting. The crimes itself has elements that makes them somewhat believable.

          If the family is involved in this as a hoax, why would they allow themselves to be described as such total assholes in the manifesto? It is bad enough for them to become pariahs!

          On the other hand, how could a mentally deficient young man function well enough to write the auto biography, while attending school, and being severely depressed at the same time. Why was he so inefficient at killing. Why not just leave SB? Why did not any therapy work for him? Why did not anyone in his family (or ppl at his Uni.) subscribe to his YT ch. and be forewarned of his doings?

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  7. This posted on local forum by Anun Naki:

    “The local authority has been compromised. Demand an independent investigation.

    absolutely no details about the stabbing scene. this in itself should be a scandal. anyone here old enough to remember the OJ Simpson crime scene?

    the unsuspecting public was conditioned to accept the diagramed shooting crime scene before the official report by the Sheriff. Demand that the sheriff provide a similar diagram for the stabbing victims.

    it would take at least 1 dozen stabbings to kill one victim and at least 3 dozen to kill 3 young men, and you’re not guaranteed a success, at least one of the young men should have survived.

    one can expect the blade to break, the handle to break off, the hand to slip onto the blade, and self-inflicted wounds from the strikes.

    the motive for killing the roomates was to squash any information about the home-life of Elliot, about who he had been meeting with, information he shared, their opinion about the state of Elliots mental condition. it was imperative to eliminate any information that would contradict the official storyline.”

    Along with this video and comment:
    Since when are the community members tasked with cleaning up a crime scene?
    and this:http://youtu.be/hL-Widy8K34

    and this: http://youtu.be/CFbCph9A-6g

    and this: http://youtu.be/T1oymbwSNL8

    I am very surprised.

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  8. It’s always interesting to notice the talking points which arise after one of these incidents. This one is on the theme of how intelligence (i.e. scanning the suspect’s internet use) might prevent crimes, thus justifying the kind of monitoring of the population which the government is currently having a little trouble justifying. Apparently, the cops who went to see Elliot never saw his disturbed ravings online. But with a bigger budget for surveilling citizens and for anticipating these problems proactively, there will simply cease to be these horrific crimes, don’t you see? So considering the evidence for this being staged, we can point to two murder weapons (primitive knives and also a gun), only one of which has any chance of being banned. But we can see the value in hiring a secret police force to monitor the internet, where there will be a “see something, say something” policy, perhaps. But at any rate, where a suspect will not be so lightly let off after questioning if he also has questionable online stuff. Fun, huh?

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    • Musings, as usual it has more than one dimension. There is the idea of “pre-crime” intervention. “See what happens when the state doesn’t ‘step in’ and ‘act”?

      Is it a police function to diagnose mental problems? People say all sorts of things without acting on them. Do we “risk” waiting until an actual crime is committed (IAW the Constitution), or do a “preemptive strike”, whenever someone shows signs of leaving the NWO reservation?

      Do we view any break in the state-inspired and regulated “peace” as an aberration requiring intervention? Must someone DO SOMETHING every time there is a problem? Are problems “normal”?

      Should we yearn for a risk-free life? Is that really life? What is the role of government in this? I could get flattened by a microbe or shot by a cop. Someone should DO SOMETHING.

      So, yet again, we allow “The State” to define what life is supposed to look like. We believe what they want us to believe because we saw it on TEE VEE. “Elliot” is “real” because they told us so. “Elliot” is a failure of government. “Elliot” would be a happy, attractive, sexually satisfied contributing member of the NWO were it not for gun laws.

      That’s it in a nutshell. If it weren’t for DOUBTERS (grrr!), people would accept their absorption into THE ENTITY and life would be happy. Smiling, happy yacht washers and golf caddies, zoned out on Prozac so that those IN AUTHORITY would no longer have to worry about the “Elliot’s” of this world. Wouldn’t that be nice?

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    • The 400 some page auto biography is convenient from the perspective that ER now can be posthumously diagnosed by anyone that wants to. It will be used to fuel the “war on crazy”.

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      • Col. BG: “ER” kind of has a ring to it – like “911”. As to lophatt’s remarks re: “the State” – it also is creating the idea of the citizen as the enemy or potential enemy. From the first “Shock and Awe” of Iraq, I realized I would be a sworn enemy of any such invader, and patriot rather than terrorist would be how I would see myself as an Iraqi whose land had been invaded. There would be nothing they could do for me except to leave and go home that would win my heart or my mind.

        I am sure that this idea is understood quite well in the depths of secret government. It seems that some de-encryption program in NSA has been called “Bullrun” while it’s British counterpart program has been called “Edgehill” – both are initial battles in the respective civil wars of the countries which employ this potential malware spyware. They know we won’t like what they are up to. They are sure we would declare war on them if they knew the extent, and so they anticipate our opposition already, and probably snicker about it among themselves, unless like Cheney, they cannot crack a smile without needing a defibrillator.

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      • Musings and Old Man, precisely! That’s one of the points I’m trying to make. Look at how well an “illusion” takes hold, even on a site that is predominantly dedicated to debunking this nonsense.

        Everyone is discussing this as if “he’s” real. How is it they know so much about this character? Is it really in dispute that this is a vehicle for a meme? It is apparently successful in that it evokes reactions. People are “imprinting” on it.

        Musings has it right. It’s a product. “9-11”, “Boston Strong”, ER, it’s like that movie, “Wag the Dog”, remember “Old Shoe”? It is misogynistic enough to get women to want to line up for the stoning. Logic flies out the window and is replaced by emotion. He (it?) becomes a symbol.

        This is mind control. Learn to recognize it or ignore it at your peril. The point of learning to recognize deceit is to avoid cooperating with it.

        We must come to realize, ugly as it is, that this isn’t “our” government. It is a fascist entity that extends over most of Europe and has a plan for us. These incidents are deemed necessary to affect the disarmament and acceptance necessary to achieving THEIR ends. You can’t vote this out of existence. We can learn to ignore, ridicule and not cooperate with it. That’s about the only power we have.

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      • Lophatt has captured the attitude which might rationally get anyone through this kind of deceptive style of “news”. When everyone else predictably falls to explaining “Old Shoe”, passing on statements about his heroism, one pivots about and states “The back of my hand to you” giving them absolutely no credibility or juice or applause. I think this is hard because we have all once believed, were once brought up in the fold, and it is hard to choose to be an outsider to the dominant mythologizing.

        But I wonder what it feels like where they know they are generating this. There are wolves among the sheep for sure, consciously and deliberately staging stuff. Not the implementers – the people downloading our private lives for NSA, the people making us throw out our baby’s formula for TSA, the cops who shut down cities because a “terrorist” is hiding somewhere. They are the instruments of actual planners, the foci of the bad stuff, and those shadowy people carry on unseen. Isn’t it time they were unmasked?

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      • Having just awakened to these over-powering truths over the last year, I have found three types of people who share the mind space I now lean towards.

        Purist “truthers”, like Lophatt (zoom in on his avatar, it’s deep), view our reality in multiple dimensions and have a knack for providing a level-headed situation analysis. Whether in words, video, and/or audio, these folks show bottom-line cause and effect in a variety of perspectives regarding the “programming” we are being subjected to by those who choose to master us minions. Because they must digest an almost daily in-flux of outrageous premeditated events, including intelligent dis-info campaigns, they must strive to remain neutral in order to maintain a clear-headed and objective perspective. Therefore, I truly understand their repeated recommendations to ignore, ridicule, or not cooperate with the matrix.

        The second group of people is the one I include myself in. We have broken free of the programming and are seeking answers. Because things don’t add up. Because we feel that cheaters shouldn’t win. Because we are fed up. And the more we interact with others whom feel the same way, the more confirmation we require to act. We don’t want our kids to grow up under the force-fed doctrine that the end justifies the means, or that it is OK to screw your fellow man and the earth as long as you are being happily entertained. To me, and I have always stated this opinion here, we have got to do something. We have got to take action.

        Musings recommends we consider unmasking the wolves and sheep behind these events. If I tried to that today, here in my community, I would be hog-tied, then quartered. Because the folks “behind these events” is pretty much all of my neighbors and most of my own family. These are the folks I engage with daily, who work dull overpaid jobs, chauffeur their kids to every imaginable afternoon activity imaginable, serve Costco dinners, and upgrade their SUVs every three years. They love their sports heroes, worship the richest folks in the city (whom we all know, by the way), and desperately want to fit in (what is the current version of iPhone?). The children are being drill-tested to conformity and are absolutely clueless on global affairs. We are the middle to upper-middle class cows of “the system” and our kids are the prime veal to the highest bidder (choose any sport, internship, or start-up). And the majority couldn’t care less. Because they really are fat, dumb, and happy. And getting richer, in terms of fiat currency, every minute of every hour. Ah, bliss!

        And yet, I know all of these people. Heck, their fathers coached me in little league, and now I know their grand-children’s names. I cannot help but try, when there is an iota of hope, to help them think about truth. Because I was once one like them. And I know what shapes their decision-making. Therefore, I hope I can help.

        The third group of those seeking truth are in the untapped people among the current sheeple. They are in all of our neighborhoods and any day now, one or two of them will begin to see that something is not quite right, that some of the folks who got rich stole a ton of their unfair share, and that maybe there oughta be a better world for their beloved progeny than the one we currently reside in. If any such individual were to come across my path, I would of course feel obliged to let them know they are not alone and that, if they opt for action, we could garner more numbers and perhaps create a tipping-point to effect positive change.

        I read these comments and feel we are on the right track. It sure would help if we could find a way to work more smartly with one another. As I see it, the clock’s still ticking.

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        • Old Man,
          I have never been able to enhance lophatts avatar. I was able to find it after a quick search, and the legend behind it. Hmmm.

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      • Musings, that’s a good thought. “Unmasking” the operatives would be very useful. There is already a bit of this going on with some spotting multiple roles for some of the actors.

        There are, indeed, degrees of complicity. Most have a strong desire for acceptance. Most would do things that contradict what they know in their hearts to be right. Depending on their moral and ethical development there should be limits.

        It is unlikely to overcome a lifetime of conditioning. There are some who would refuse to do some things, no matter how much affirmation they are subjected to. Sad to say, most are not really lovers of freedom, personal or otherwise. They are much happier in herds.

        I try not to use superlatives or sweeping statements. There are always exceptions. Of course these are notable precisely BECAUSE they are exceptions. There are things we can do. They may not seem important, but they are.

        The first step is realizing that things are not as they are advertised to be. Another is that TPTB don’t care what we think or believe. They are only interested in what we do or don’t do. They have this covered in layers. It is easier with cooperation. It will not stop if there isn’t any.

        Interference is an important part of resistance. It makes them spend more energy and effort. This is why societies ruled by jack-booted thugs always fail in time. When the dynamic reaches a tipping point where it takes more of “them” to control “us” it falls apart.

        Your idea makes me think of SHES. We know the public names and personalities of various players. Just like the overlords watch us, we should take a lesson here. When the watchers become the “watched”, I assume they also become “the nervous”. When people are nervous, especially the guilty, they make mistakes.

        If the disturbing weird A. Cooper encountered a clip of his disappearing “green-screened” nose at every public performance, do you think he’d be antsy? If some of these others started encountering pictures of their cars and persons leaving suspicious places, etc., do you think the phones would light up at Central Casting?

        If people encountering them on the street turned their backs and refused to talk to them would there be a message in that act? If this sheriff who is obviously participating in the Great Gun Grab by refusing to discuss the stabbings encountered signs on his way home that simply said “SHAME”, would he make the connection?

        So, I totally agree. “It’s time they were unmasked”. We have a lot of creative people. That’s what we need. Creative people using their God-given creativity to find ways to expose these roaches to some healthy sunlight. In fact, that’s what roaches do. They scurry back into the cracks and crevices where they can hide. You only see them in the light when there are too many of them to hide in the cracks.

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      • Old Man, thanks for the complement (I think!), and you’ve captured most of the essence of how I view these things. I would add that it isn’t that I don’t care as deeply as others do about these things. It is just that caring is not enough. Surviving is what we should be thinking about at the moment.

        If I didn’t care I wouldn’t tolerate the ridicule from some for advising against doing things that were doomed to failure. I’d just let them go for it. Martyrs are wonderful figures when historians write about them later and try to ascertain just how important their “sacrifice” was to some change. Unfortunately they are gone by then and unable to continue the fight.

        Those responsible for what we see are, indeed, unseen. They are extremely powerful and evil. They are not necessarily “bright”, just powerful. Anything done in the interest of arresting their schemes has to be done intelligently.

        I have children and grandchildren who I care very much about. I too am in love with the idea of America and “The West” and “The Constitution”. I have had to stare hard at reality and recognize that those are just ideas. They may be wonderful ideas, but they have no force any longer. That isn’t because I WANT it that way, it is just a reality that must be faced before anything meaningful can be done to make those ideas reality.

        Those ideas have never been reality. They have, however, been presented to the world so convincingly over time that, for a while, the plan did not proceed at an accelerated rate. Life was tolerable, if not perfect. What we are seeing now will be intolerable.

        We survivors will, of course, survive. We will not help ourselves or others by performing emotional acts for TPTB to make examples of. Their success depends on crushing hope. We don’t want to provide ready made examples for them to exploit.

        “Doing something” can take other forms than normally understood. In fact, given the surveillance and the militarized Stasi roaming our streets in service to these psychopaths, “doing something” is going to take creativity. You can’t “organize”, they will infiltrate you. You can’t really communicate because they’ll know that too.

        A good start is what I call “the Italian method”. Italy had several governments after WWII. They were universally bad. People just went on with their lives like they weren’t there. If confronted they just smiled, “sure, whatever you say”, then went right back to whatever they were doing. A person can work really hard at accomplishing nothing. Herding cats is frustrating.

        Without organization this type of response can grow. It becomes an “understood” thing. People know they are “doing their part”. Eventually the abusive cops will become loathsome figures. Ultimately they won’t be safe anywhere.

        So, I’m not unaffected by all this. I’m suggesting that we accept reality and go from there. If there was something we could do to change that, I’d be all for it. Actually, there is. It just isn’t going to be as quick or as emotionally satisfying as we might like.

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        • I have not read all the responses on this thread yet, but I just loved OldMan’s post and lophatt’s subsequent reply. My own thinking, though not nearly as well-formed, mirrors yours (lophatt’s).

          A few years back, I looked around and came to the conclusion that, no matter how many meetings I attended or how many signs I carried at public events, very little was changing. In fact, the more I fought the more there was to fight against. All I was doing was depleting my own energy. I finally accepted that I couldn’t immediately impact the world at large, but I COULD make changes within my own family. I have one son, whom I promptly pulled out of school. My husband, who is a college professor, quit his duties as Department Chair to focus all of his energy on the classroom, where he can really make an impact on his students. Despite enormous pressure, he stopped paying union dues. We worked on cutting our debt. We have built up our emergency supplies and have developed an emergency action plan. We have increased our spirituality and our participation in our church. We encourage our son to avoid governmental employment at any level, and teach him self-reliance. We limit our television/movie watching, and stay away from pop (“Illuminati”) music. We take care who we allow into our lives. We eat high quality food, and less of it. We value temperance and chastity and the Golden Rule, and we practice what we preach.

          I don’t say this to toot my own horn, but to show that there ARE solutions. They just may not look like the ones we envision. Though I have not seen immediate results due to my actions in the world at large, I HAVE seen miracles come to my family. Real, tangible blessings that I KNOW are related to the changes we’ve made (and keep making). I’m convinced that this is the key to making real change at large: living as virtuously and as independently as possible, and refusing to participate in the farce as much as possible.

          A final thought: I think that Elizabeth Kubler-Ross’s five stages of grief theory works very well to describe what many of us go through upon “waking up”. The stages, for those that don’t know, are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and finally, acceptance. “Acceptance” doesn’t mean being okay with the untenable situation, but means that the reality of the situation–the inevitability of it–is understood. The “bargaining” stage can be the most difficult, especially for friends, family, and co-workers, as that’s when the awoken tries to wake up others, rails at the system, and demands change. I’ve found this process to be fairly universal, but everyone moves through the stages at their own pace. Difficult though it may be, I found it very helpful to understand the process.

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      • Lophatt – I acknowledge the evil forces you describe. But all choices and subsequent action are still carried out by men and women. The elites have cheated their way to positions of ultra power and have convinced us that “these are how things go”.

        As you point out, the men and women at the top are not the smartest people on the planet. They are either born into an already established power elite or they have achieved their state in life through merciless aggression and cut-throat ambition. They see the world in two dimensions: win/lose, mine/yours, have/have not, safety/risk, life/death, etc.

        Today, the short-sighted strategies that continue to heavily impact our world are showing signs of resistance. In every corner of this planet, people are waking up and questioning our complicity to stupid ideas and self-serving policies. The country with the most asleep population is right here at home. To call us the dis-united States would be more suitable at this juncture in our nation’s history. We, the masses, fight over everything except what matters most.

        I think our purpose here is to determine what really matters. And then do something about it. Surely we can collectively do better than just present the truth in the memory hole, and then acquiese to a fate of intolerable survival.

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    • Well, the guy looks pretty real…while the girl’s injuries are to superficial to even contemplate. She and her family also sound very contrived. Are we to believe that all these people were so grievously injured by a spoiled sociopathic monster and not one has anger at him at all? They’re all focused on an inanimate object (and I guess we should outlaw cars along with knives…) and an abstract concept, with zero anger at the very personal intention of the human being who wanted to do cause them harm. The problem with allowing any of them to express actual anger at Elliot is that then they’d be straying from the script of how society ‘needs to help him’ and that committing people and drugging them is ‘for their own good.’ The minutes any of them admits to anger at him, we’d be reminded of Elliot’s anger towards his victims, which is an expression of human evil and aggression, not ‘mental illness.’

      There is also not one mention of the cops’ outrageous violation of procedure, which is the ‘crack in the system.’ I have a hard time believing not one of these families has thought of suing the cops for such an obvious and egregious violation of protocol. We should be seeing notices of claim coming also to the Rodgers, yet there’s not so much as one family who blames any of the people who are actually responsible for their suffering. This is one main reason this reeks of pure hoax.

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      • Sue, yes. The script calls for the focus to be elsewhere. This is a “failure” of “the system”, not a moral issue. They just happen to have the acts all drafted and ready to be introduced. That’ll fix it. That’s what government does. They fix everything.

        Lack of lawsuits is pretty telling. Lack of anger at the perpetrator is pretty unusual too. When somebody hacks your loved one to death with an axe do you go on tv and rage at axes? I wouldn’t think so. Before there were axes there were rocks.

        Connecting the dots between the recent additions to the psychiatric diagnostic manual, the calls for “intervention” sound like another avenue to elimination of the “doubters”. Defiance is now insanity.

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      • I want to add that by avoiding expressing what would be natural anger towards Elliot, the ‘victims’ and ‘witnesses’ to Elliot’s ‘mental illness’ avoid admitting that power and ego is at stake here. The psych system wants the public to believe that it operates for our welfare, and that it has the welfare of it’s victims in mind.

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  9. One other thing I haven’t seen mentioned elsewhere (and maybe it has) is that Richard Martinez, the very vocal father of one of the victims, is a criminal defense attorney. Under any other circumstances, he could have been defending ER…isn’t his outrage a little ironic (or hypocritical, maybe)?

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  10. I have not read much talk about the “manifesto”, other than to discuss specific details of it. One of the first things I did after learning of the shootings was to download it and then to skim/read the thing. The thoughts I have come from just that initial going-over. What jumped out at me is that, at least the parts that I read carefully, there are no typos or grammatical errors. I couldn’t help but note, too, how candidly and articulately he spoke about very personal and potentially embarrassing subjects, including descriptions of moderately graphic masturbation, and a slew of personal shortcomings and judgment errors. Doesn’t anyone else find it odd that he would write so naturally about this…I mean, he (was) a socially-retarded, sexually-repressed, just-barely-out-of-adolescence misfit, or so we are supposed to believe.

    I am a decent writer (I’m no Patrick…), but when I have attempted similar writings, even if I have no plans of ever showing anyone what I wrote, I come off sounding stilted and artificial. And it was no quirk: the entire manifesto utilized the same “voice”, though it changed in timbre and tone in all the right places. There was no sense of it being any sort of a diary or journal, entries written at different times. Assuming that ER wrote and edited the piece himself, it demonstrates remarkable stamina and maturity, not to mention writing and storytelling abilities.

    Finally, I can’t help but wonder how long, exactly, it took ER to write such a manifesto. I know the kid had recently recovered from a year-long injury…perhaps he wrote it then?

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    • The “manifesto” feels professionally written, except for one or two sentences. If it is written by a 22year old he is above average, and It must have taken a lot of time. Personally I do not see the purpose of it for someone who just wants to revenge the world!?

      A young person who can write in this style can step back and view his life from a distance, not something typical of an irrational person! He is very articulate, something that is indeed typical of Aspies, but still I think the language feels a little too grown up for his age.

      Frankly I’d be surprised if he really wrote this by himself. The videos he has posted of himself shows a juvenile spoiled narcissistic brat, perhaps not stupid, but not very bright either!

      I’m still not decided, if it s a hoax or not, but it is a strange story!

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      • You don’t sense any irreconcilable contradictions in the profile that’s being painted of Elliot? He was suffering from rejection anxiety, yet he never put himself out there, even as he was certain women *should* want him. But he could talk glibly to cops, a judge, and men when necessary. Even the Rugg roommate guy claims Elliot rejected him and friends, not vice versa.

        In my youth I had to deal with a seeming pageant of narcissistic personality complexed young males coming at me, and I can tell you that Elliot’s profile seems totally nonsensical. They’re using the asperger’s to bridge the illogical and counter-intuitive gaps, but it’s not working. He was filled with yearning and hormones that were uncontrollable, but he never tried to talk to girls, even though he could con cops, judges, and even some of his roommates who apparently liked him for a time.

        It’s just crap. It’s about the level of a D grade movie in terms of character arc and development. It makes no sense. The average porn flick has a more cogent protagonist and plot (not that I’ve watched much porn).

        I’ll say one more time that a ‘welfare check’ is not a psych screening, it’s just when the cops are called to make sure someone’s alive or something. And keep in mind that Elliot owned guns registered in his name and the cops had access to that information, and could have even checked on it driving over with their posse.

        I even think this feminist angle has a strategy to it. There has been a fair amount of attention brought on the issue of black on white crime by fed-up whites, with a specific focus on the targeting of blondes. It’s also been highlighted that the system has historically pathologized women – white women, not black or other ethnicities (and white here means european, non-judeo) – for reporting that they’ve been raped or sexually assaulted. Most women who were in the 80’s or 90’s are diagnosed with ‘bipolar.’ Talk about blaming the victim.

        But in the last few years more and more awareness has gathered about black on white rape and on how black politicians and even the justice system is increasingly letting black perps off by calling black perps ‘mentally ill.’ Whites in general are the most pro-Second Amendment, and there’s a significant intersection of those who are fed up, defiant of gun-grabbing, and defensive of white and especially blonde women.

        This just seems an ingenious way to sort of stave off challenges to the gun-grabbing from that element of people, and to also distract from the black (and ‘tribal’) aggressions towards blonde white women (who seem to hold some symbolic meaning to both groups). As someone who has experienced more than my share of these ethnicities’ hatred of blondes, I can say I’ve never countenanced any of it from asians (although there is compelling evidence that Elliot’s father is jewish). It also creates lots of noise and momentum as the feminists or women’s rights people clamor for attention and ‘change.’

        Funny that as the feminist types are organizing none are asking why rape victims are so often ‘diagnosed’ with ‘bipolar…’ But then we’re being told that Elliot also never so much as inappropriately came onto one woman…

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        • Sue wrote:

          “There has been a fair amount of attention brought on the issue of black on white crime by fed-up whites, with a specific focus on the targeting of blondes.”

          You mean, by fed-up RACIST whites.

          “It’s also been highlighted that the system has historically pathologized women – white women, not black or other ethnicities (and white here means european, non-judeo) – for reporting that they’ve been raped or sexually assaulted.”

          This is laughably untrue!! White women have it better in all areas in which women are marginalized. White women simply report rapes more than women of color, who are mostly taught to bear such things in silence, and who statistically are raped much more often and more brutally. White women are more fetishized as sexual prizes and in the sex industry, but they are also better treated by johns, make more money, and are beaten and killed less regularly.

          “But in the last few years more and more awareness has gathered about black on white rape and on how black politicians and even the justice system is increasingly letting black perps off by calling black perps ‘mentally ill.’”

          NO perps should be getting away with rape. Singling out black on white rape among all of the rape that happens among all of the diverse rape situations in the world is just racist period. Discuss rape and mental health issues if you want, but leave race out of it.

          “This just seems an ingenious way to sort of stave off challenges to the gun-grabbing from that element of people, and to also distract from the black (and ‘tribal’) aggressions towards blonde white women (who seem to hold some symbolic meaning to both groups). ”

          White blonde women are held up as prizes by white men and the sex industry, and thus ALL men are supposed to view them as more desirable, and may become frustrated and aggressive when these trophy women don’t respond to them. White, black, Asian, Latino, it doesn’t matter the race of the man – it’s about men competing against one another for alpha-male status. Black men cannot be singled out for their symbolic attachment to blonde women.

          I know that sometimes blonde, white females imagine that they are the only ones being singled out for aggressive and overly sexualized treatment by males. The fact is that all attractive young women of all races experience sexual attention and harassment from men of all races. Read some feminist statistics or articles on rape and white privilege sometime.

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          • “This is laughably untrue!! White women have it better in all areas in which women are marginalized. White women simply report rapes more than women of color, who are mostly taught to bear such things in silence, and who statistically are raped much more often and more brutally. White women are more fetishized as sexual prizes and in the sex industry, but they are also better treated by johns, make more money, and are beaten and killed less regularly”

            pfly, you sound jealous!

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          • Oh yes, I really want to be the object of desire of rapists and criminals in the sex industry. I really want to be a prostitute who is in high demand. Oh brother.

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          • I guess the alleged relation of Elliot Rodger to the men’s movement and PUAhate brings out a different kind of discussion than usual. This the first I’ve seen blatant racism and sexism on this blog.

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          • I think you’re reading into it too much.

            It must be my imagined intonation and inflection reading your comments. some things don’t translate well over the internet.

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          • fishandroaches,

            Your comments suggest that you think that women want to be prized by rapists and pimps and are jealous if they are not the most objectified women on the block. I assure you, there is nothing glamorous about rape nor about being the object of mens’ most pornographic fantasies. And yet unfortunately no woman is exempt. This is the point I was making to Sue.

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          • You are very painfully ignorant about feminism and about how language works if you think you did not make those statements. As for this video, it seems to be trying to prove that feminism itself is a big conspiracy. What I would say to that is that women have always had opposition to gaining equal rights, and I wouldn’t be surprised if plots were hatched now and then to derail their efforts. This has nothing whatever to do with actual feminism and how real women’s lives are affected by male violence.

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          • I’m not too sure what your version of feminism is just from a few comments. If you could point me somewhere where I could read a fairly concise explanation of all the good it has done I would surely take a look.

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          • What I did here was to defend myself against an egregiously sexist remark. Having called out sexism here does not make it my job to educate you about feminism or to provide you with explanations as to its achievements. You can Google feminist websites yourself if you’re interested. But since you’ve said that you want a “concise explanation” I doubt you would have the patience to sift though enough material to really learn anything. That said, one blog you can read if you actually are interested in learning something is feministcurrent.com.

            What I can do is to tell you that in “my version of feminism” women are not jealous of other women who are more targeted by rape, sexual harassment, and pornographic projections than they are.

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        • “In my youth I had to deal with a seeming pageant of narcissistic personality complexed young males coming at me, and I can tell you that Elliot’s profile seems totally nonsensical. They’re using the asperger’s to bridge the illogical and counter-intuitive gaps, but it’s not working. He was filled with yearning and hormones that were uncontrollable, but he never tried to talk to girls, even though he could con cops, judges, and even some of his roommates who apparently liked him for a time.”

          In his videos he actually sounds a lot like he is co-morbid with Asperger’s and sociopathy. It’s an unfortunate mix. The sociopathic person feels entitled to everything he wants, but the Asperger’s person doesn’t know how to communicate to others to gets what he wants. Plus the Asperger’s person has a deep aversion to being close to people, but may still have a strong sex drive and feel he is entitled to a woman, filling him with yearning for something he wants but knows he is unable to handle. He might also have great jealousy of neurotypical people who can love and have normal relations.

          The sociopathic person is constantly filled with rage, imagines slights and insults where there are none, and bars his own way to pleasurable interactions with women before they happen because he despises people, including women. Plus, the sociopathic ego can’t tolerate rejection, especially from someone it deems inferior (everyone, in the sociopath’s world).

          So although his videos seem staged, they also seem psychologically real if he had those two conditions simultaneously. I’ve been studying sociopathy a lot, and he fits like a glove. But of course it could all be a script written by someone who is an expert on the thinking of sociopaths. Most sociopaths are not violent by the way.

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          • @sue first: yes I think there are glaring contradictions in Elliot’s profile. He is shy to girls, yet thinks highly of himself. He is shy, yet natural infront a camera. He is misogynistic, but do not consider to pay for sex. If he could stop obsessing about the shallow sorority girls, he could get a normal girl that would be impressed with him. He is a talented writer, he has a nice car (if you like BMW), he looks nice, he got Hollywood connections. Yes it is shallow to say that, but the world is shallow, it is how people get laid!

            No therapy works for this kid, he gets social training, and psychological help. He can write about his life in detail, he can articulate problems. Still he remains irrational.

            He writes about his feelings, he yearns for closeness, friendship, romance; but he never shows any emotions! In his videos he does not cry or rave. He talks about the most personal things in life, the reasons for living, but do not shed a tear as far as I have seen!? (Perhaps the script writers wants to show how he lacked “empathy”, misunderstanding what that means concerning people with Aspergers.)

            @pbutterfly2000, If he would be a sociopath, would he have all these deep feelings? He does express a need for closeness and romance, not just sex and having a trophy GF.

            Asperger people I know well. I never met one that would want what ER wanted. Asperger Syndrome (AS) people think more independently than most. Trophy girl friends and fancy BMWs are not really typical of a person with AS. Living in a student rich environment is untypical as well, due to sensory problems.

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          • Sociopaths have deep feelings too. It’s just that their wants and needs are for themselves, and not for others. Many sociopaths are very lonely and crave love. They just don’t have empathy, and without empathy it’s difficult to get love, so they are angry. This anger sometimes festers inside them, and makes them hate both the women who refuse them love, and the men that are able to get love that they themselves cannot get. They see other people enjoying themselves simply and making connections that they themselves can’t make with others, and this is why they are always filled with rage. They can be highly intelligent and sensitive, but they can’t emotionally connect with others and their intelligence makes them painfully aware of this fact so that their very existence can become unbearable. Elliot Rodger is a textbook sociopath in this regard.

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        • ” But then we’re being told that Elliot also never so much as inappropriately came onto one woman…”

          that is about the only part of this story that is somewhat believable. The guy is obviously as queer as the back side of a barn but that wont give them anything to work with.

          This whole story is so absurd, it’s horrid. I can’t even study any of this one- every time I see that effeminate little bastard’s face I feel a little bit stupider.

          All i know is That I saw A picture of the kids father sucking on his sunglasses the day after this supposed incident and there is not a chance in hell that guy lost a child recently. Fake, fake,fake.

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      • Well, one thing that is obviously “true” is that the emotional meme they chose for this character is resonating nicely.

        It sounds like everyone is projecting his or her own life experience onto it and feeling some sort of “attachment” with it. Suddenly, we are no longer talking about whether this is another setup, we’re debating the mystical meaning of “Elliot”!

        “Does ‘Elliot’ represent all males? Does ‘Elliot’ represent the male ‘dark force’ that women must suffer in life?” Some men are jerks, so are some women.

        His “manifesto” is a narcissistic, pity party. Some may have noticed lately that “bullying” has been a recent theme. We should all live perfect, happy lives-like amputees-and we could, with the proper, state-approved “care”.

        This is a cautionary tale. People without “help” with the vagaries of life will “snap”, buy a gun and………! Somehow, even ugly people manage to find mates all the time. Sometimes that doesn’t work out well. What works is to be well adjusted BEFORE you try to find someone because you think they’re the “fix” for your problems.

        I am happy to be a man. I think women should be happy to be women. Nobody said life is supposed to be easy. We learn to deal with things that bother us. That’s how we grow. If we act like spoiled brats and expect others to fix everything we don’t like for us, we don’t grow and we just become aged spoiled brats.

        My advice for the age-old problem of the sexes is not to over think it too much. It is the way it is. I’m afraid our choice is to learn to deal with it and be happy about it, or not. I’m fond of telling people that “I’d like to be rich and get laid every night, but I’ve had to learn to live with disappointment”. Our antagonist in this production is a good example of what happens when one doesn’t.

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      • I am not sure either,I know Sandy Hook was absolutely a hoax but my cousin that went there recently says people she knew were killed.Still could be false flag gun-control along with satanic human sacrifice by our govt
        to make it more real?

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        • sounds like you should have some fololow up questions for your cousin. Who did you know? How did you know them? who else did you know? Can we contact them?

          I will bet those questions are met with silence.

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      • @Pbutterfly2000, I do not buy the “timid psychopath” psycho babble, sorry. It makes no sense, and flies in the face of the diagnostic criteria. As well as my personal experiences.

        The whole story seems perfect to inspire irrational trendies to start lighting candles and doing group hugs. That is a big red flag with me! And he left 400 pages to let everyone diagnose him by. Why would he, a “psycopath”, give a crap what we think of him? His auto biography will inspire many different quasi religious denominations to form. each with the their own diagnose for him. All with the same goal to ban guns and have everyones brain checked by the Big Brother Pharma Nazi State!

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

        Now we have, within 3 years, three rich young men that allegedly have gone berserk. That is a VERY odd pattern!

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        • I am not saying he was a timid sociopath. I am saying that the worldview he delineated in his videos and manifesto is a textbook sociopathic worldview, whether it was scripted or authentic. It has nothing to do with timidity. It has to do with a sense of being different because of one’s lack of empathy, interpreting that difference as superiority, and then developing a constant rage that one’s superiority does not reap the benefits that it should. Sociopaths are notoriously good at mimicking empathy to get what they want, but Asperger’s people are not able to do that and thus are always kept at a great distance from what they want. The failure to approach women is a mix of disdain for the women because of their innate inferiority and an avoidance of rejection which would be unbearable. Look up any articles on sociopathy and you will see that this is all true.

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          • Now you say sociopath, are you using that interchangeably with psychopath or do you mean psychopath?

            Psychopaths have shallow charming manners, that is true.

            Typical for psychopaths is that they are bold and manipulative. And lacking true deep empathy. ER craved for love and intimacy. And he was disgusted at the shooting range when he first tried a handgun. He had empathy. It took him years to develop into the murderer he became. He seems to have been a gentle child. Eventually he became very disturbed though, partly by brainwashing himself, but also I speculate, that he was a victim of living in the shadow of self centered parents. Children of narcissists often start to emulate their tormenting parent.

            ER was in his childhood very impressed with his father being able to find a new woman very quickly after the divorce. Perhaps he subconsciously wanted to be like his father, who does btw display some psychopathic tendencies, abandoning his children, taking big financial risks, and acting very callously towards ER generally. Abandoned children can start to build up an idealized picture of their parent, hoping they will be saved one day.

            He was being bullied by his stepmom about not getting relationships.

            Living in this ultra narcissistic environment trained him to be that way himself. But I’m starting to believe ER was secretly homosexual. Something he did not want to admit to himself even. Having this orientation would explain why he never did approach any girls. Perhaps he really did not want them sexually (on a biological level), he only wanted to be adored by them, like they adored his father! Being homosexual would prevent him from living up to his father complex, having the irrational belief that becoming like his father would earn him his fathers respect and attention.

            Just speculations though!

            If he really did write this “manifesto” himself, it is a very brutal and just revenge on a terrible family. ER must have been totally abandoned by his family on an emotional level, if it is true. I still have doubts!

            There are so many irrational things about this story it is hard to make any sense of it. I wish they could make every story like BMB or SHH!

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      • The facts tell a story so opposite to that of pbutterfly2000’s that it, along with his/her profiling of a sociopath (which seems highly suspect in various ways to me) begs the question of whether we are dealing with a plant here. Some names to look up just to get the very tip of the iceberg when it comes to the truth about violence towards my demographic:

        Channon Christian
        Melissa McLaughline
        Connie Russo-Carriero
        Autumn Pasquale
        Brittney Watts
        Pam Gentry
        Kristin Warnecke

        and on, and on, and on, and on. Also look into the Zebra Murders. Check FBI stats on interracial assaults (and remember that they include latin americans who are perps with Europeans). I could list several websites whose headlines from just the last week depict gruesome murders of my demographic by Afr. Am men, but many espouse an ideology that would likely cause this post to not make it past moderation. So start with Colin Flahertys pretty milquetoast version of what’s really happening along these fronts in the US, as an intro to a war that’s been raging since the 70’s.

        Pretty presumptuous for someone to decry sexism while telling me that I and so many other women like me are ‘imagining’ assaults or being targets for all males. But the left has been imagining they could get away with this utmost in hypocrisy (more like a calculated lie) for going on half a century (and of the larger one that they somehow represent the middle and lower class of my group along with that).

        I’ll be waiting for examples of all these crimes committed by my people against all the supposed ‘oppressed’ minorities…

        Last, I didn’t bring the trait of blonde hair into this discussion; this hoax’ handlers did.

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        • Sue,

          The problem with male violence against women is an enormous one. The problem is that you are painting it as a black on white issue when it’s not. All women are subject to male violence, and women of color are not exempt. It’s just that violence against white women is covered in the media, whereas violence against women of color, unless they are celebrities, is mostly ignored. I would never want to minimize the impact of violence against ANY women – neither should you.

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        • Sue: I did not and would never say that you were imagining assaults by males. I said that you were imagining that your demographic is the only one that receives assaults from males, when the reality is very different. And I didn’t call you sexist – I called you racist. It was another poster that made comments that were sexist.

          And the anger about how I describe sociopathy on this site can only come from an ignorance about what sociopathy is. Whether or not his videos and writings were sociopathic has nothing to do with whether or not they were authentic. They could very well have been written by an expert on sociopathic personalities. In fact they are so textbook-perfect that they do indeed seem fake. It’s highly unlikely that someone that age would have such a depth of insight into their own motives. He was over-intellctualizing his pathology. That was partly my point.

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        • “I’ll be waiting for examples of all these crimes committed by my people against all the supposed ‘oppressed’ minorities…”

          Just look up the history of slavery. While you’re at it, try to explain why the majority of black people today have white blood in them, when they haven’t deliberately mixed with whites. (Hint: it has to do with the subject of “invisible” rape that I mentioned – slave-owners raping what they thought legally belonged to them).

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      • So now the tired old myth that white people enslaved black people has finally been unfurled to defend against the very real and documented war against whites that the Cult of Diversity has been waging against whites for generations.

        My people enslaved yours, pbutterfly2000?

        Uh, yeah, I guess that’s what being murdered liberating black slaves can be called…

        Or how about the black slaveowners in the Caribbean who raped en masse irish women so that their white skin was bred out to better suit them to the harsh sun?

        How about my father going to Viet Nam and his white cousin dying there while blacks were getting free rides and AA admissions to elite universities…

        Also hysterically funny that a ‘feminist’ claims blonde women are ‘prized’ by being raped and assaulted.

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        • Sue, first of all I am not black so “your people” doesn’t apply to me. Yes, it is well-known that whites enslaved blacks in America. But I will not argue race with a white supremacist.

          I did not say that white women are prized by being raped and assaulted. You are the one who said that black people like to rape and assault white women because white women are symbolic to them. What I said is that white women are symbolic TO MOST MEN in our culture because of advertising, the sex industry, and notions of white status.

          Yes it’s true that white and blonde women are prized in the sex industry. But I never said that women want to be raped and assaulted. Another poster suggested that, which is why I called him sexist!

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      • If dying to free black slaves made my forbears ‘white supremacists’ what would you call the actual slaveholders?!

        To Diversity Cultists, any white person who doesn’t believe they owe jews, blacks, hispanics, or anyone for having done but nothing to them (except mostly carry them) is somehow ‘supremacist.’ The northwestern europeans, who freed the slaves even as many of them weren’t much more than slaves themselves(and my irish forbear who fought to free slaves certainly was in Ireland) are being genocided by Diversity for sins that are wholly imagined. It’s ridiculous to suggest that in a country that had a civil war in large part over slavery ‘whites enslaved blacks.’ Less than 2% of white americans owned slaves at the time of the Civil War, and not one of my forbears did – but some blacks did!

        It’s also ridiculous to suggest that white women have any civil rights in this country when it comes to any non-white attacking them in any way whatsoever. ‘Diversity’ used white women to further their supremacist agenda which was to dispossess the white middle class and scapegoat them.

        pbutterfly2000 says:

        “What I said is that white women are symbolic TO MOST MEN in our culture because of advertising, the sex industry, and notions of white status.

        Yes it’s true that white and blonde women are prized in the sex industry”

        White women are ‘prized’ and have this exalted ‘status’ when they are being hunted down, assaulted, raped and displaced in workplaces because they are blonde.

        Uh huh.

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        • Sue, women of all races are attacked by men of all races. Physical and sexual assault are illegal, but often go unpunished because of the court system. This is not the same as you having no civil rights. And this is not a black and white issue. It’s a violence against women issue.

          For you to be “dispossessed” you have to possess something to begin with. You no longer, to your great chagrin, have the legal right to possess more than others because of your skin color. Get used to it.

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      • ETA: I meant in my last sentence that white, particularly northwestern european fair haired, women are hunted down, assaulted and raped, and discriminated against in workplaces by non-whites with zero legal recourse because they’re ‘white privileged.’ The feminist movement was really the 1960’s ‘second wave’ of women’s rights activism; it was led mainly by jews like Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem (who worked for the CIA). In the first wave mostly white, european (non-jewish) women worked to win the womens’ suffrage. These women also had worked to free black slaves; black men could vote 50 years before white women could.

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      • Loathe as I am to wade into this particular conversation (and how I do despise being trapped in the far-right-no-reply-tab column), a comment made by Ms. Butterfly triggered none of my pet peeves. It is this:

        “Just look up the history of slavery. While you’re at it, try to explain why the majority of black people today have white blood in them, when they haven’t deliberately mixed with whites. (Hint: it has to do with the subject of “invisible” rape that I mentioned – slave-owners raping what they thought legally belonged to them).”

        This I have in fact done. And while slavery in North America was perhaps the least harsh in history (we’re constantly told, laughably, it was the harshest–and moronic stories like Tarantino’s Django fantasy keep piling up the lie), a history that pretty much is the whole history of the human race, the thing about this quote that bothers me is the astonishing intensity of the racism embedded in its assumptions.

        I call this the “farm animal” perception of black people.

        I call this racism astonishing because it should be completely obvious, but the people who think this way have no idea that they are think black slaves in America were merely passive animals, like pets that owners could do anything to without consequence. These people, after all, hold this position because they are righteously indignant, and hate what white people did to those helpless Africans. Being on the side of the angels means never having to examine your assumptions.

        We need not examine the actual history to understand this (although, as I say, I have in fact done so). The assumption is that a black slaves had no human emotions. His wife, or daughter, could be used as a sex toy by white people in the same way perverts use sheep, and the husband/father will not feel anything, anymore than the sheep or his fellows feel one way or another about the rape of one of their own, or being raped itself.

        This is perhaps the pinnacle of racism.

        Of course, African people have human emotions like anyone else, and just like everyone else, if a slave’s wife or daughter was used this way he would react with anger, resentment, jealousy and hatred. Guess what he wouldn’t do? Work hard for the rapist. And black slave women reacted the same way any other woman reacts to being raped.

        A black man in his prime cost about as much as a brand new combine costs in today’s money; he represented hundreds of thousands of dollars in fixed cost. His family also represented a lot of additional fixed costs. Slaves were the largest part of a farmer’s assets.

        One owned slaves not because one hated black people, but for the same reason a farmer owns a combine: it is part of a business model. The difference is that tractors don’t have feelings you have to account for.

        You purchase the tools it takes to generate income. Farmers today take care of their expensive equipment because it is the only intelligent thing to do, lest their business fail. Farmers in the 18th and 19th centuries were just as intelligent as farmers are today; they knew that if they wanted performance (and wanted to sleep at night without the fear of a jealous negro slitting his throat while he slept) they could not treat their help as if they were farm animals.

        There are probably very foolish farmers today who buy expensive equipment and allow it to go to ruin–but they do not stay in business for long. Likewise, when farm labor was slaves, there were certainly lunatics who did not care if the help was going to be completely uncooperative, and constantly plotting revenge and sabotage out of blind rage. What a dumb business model that would be.

        There were very few such men in the Old South. Mostly, slaves were thought of (and thought of themselves) as part of an extended family. We don’t hear that very much, for political–not historical–reasons. Sad to say.

        That pervasive rape story is the greatest example of racism I know of–it’s just that those who believe it are the racists, not the owners of the slaves.

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        • Patrick, your ignorance is astounding. You really think that a black woman could refuse rape by her master, and that her husband could object? Not even white women could refuse rape. A man’s wife, children, and slaves were his property, and he did with them what he pleased, including killing them if it came to that. There are women today who are beaten and raped and killed by their husbands because of the same feeling in the man of entitlement and ownership.

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      • Edit to my edit: I refer to white women being attacked and raped in various places, but meant to say that we are attacked in workplaces and displaced from them.

        pbutterfly2000 claims:

        “Sue, women of all races are attacked by men of all races. Physical and sexual assault are illegal, but often go unpunished because of the court system. This is not the same as you having no civil rights. And this is not a black and white issue. It’s a violence against women issue.”

        Please name all the instances where black women have been attacked and raped by white men. Crystal Mangum, anyone? How about Tawana Brawley? FBI reports that white women are raped by black men at least 50 times a day in America.

        Then he/she continues: “For you to be “dispossessed” you have to possess something to begin with. You no longer, to your great chagrin, have the legal right to possess more than others because of your skin color. Get used to it.”

        So now I’m being told that I as a fair haired white woman do not possess my own body. And that whites generally do not possess the fruits of their own labors, etc.

        Any white woman who attempts, in any way shape or form, to report attacks from blacks, male or female, in a context where ‘civil rights’ laws should protect her, is considered ‘imagining’ or projecting because she is so ‘white privileged.’ Eric Holder actually stated that white people cannot be victims of hate crimes. Our AG came out and said that white people are not equal citizens under US law. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

        In December, Kim Leto, a blonde white woman, was ‘home invaded’ (read raped and murdered) in Baltimore by two black men. Local black politicians actually said that this middle class bartender had experienced her just due, and had to pay a price for her ‘white privilege.’ All over America blacks, and hispanics, are raping, murdering and maiming (lynching would be an apropos term) whites and the zionist justice system and media cover it up and even overtly promote it.

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        • Sexualized Violence Statistics

          An estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male. This US Dept. of Justice statistic does not report those who do not identify in these gender boxes.

          Around the world, at least 1 woman in every 3 has been beaten, coerced into sex, or otherwise abused in her lifetime. Most often the abuser is a member of her own family or is her partner. *(SUE: TAKE SPECIAL NOTE OF THIS FACT).

          Only 2% of rapists are convicted and imprisoned.

          Approximately 80-85% of completed rapes are committed by someone who is known to the victim/survivor. *(AGAIN, TAKE NOTE).

          42% of gay, lesbian and bisexual university students in one sample reported they had been forced to have sex against their will compared to 21% of heterosexual students in the same study.

          While 80% of reported rapes are against white women, minorities are more likely to be assaulted. (SUE: NOTE THAT MINORITIES ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE ASSAULTED). Rates of rape: White-17.7%, Black: 18.8%, Asian/Pacific Islander-6.8%, American Indian/Alaskan Women-34.1%, Mixed Race-24.4%. The stats for non-whites are probably low, since barriers to reporting would be increased for women of color. (ALSO NOTE THAT MINORITY RAPES ARE ORE LIKELY TO GO UNREPORTED).

          American Indian women are the only ethnic group more likely to be assaulted by a male outside their own ethnicity. (PLEASE ALSO NOTE THIS FACT).

          It is estimated that 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 7 boys by age 18 will have been the victim of some form of sexualized violence.

          Women who were sexually assaulted by current or former male partners were significantly more likely to present with physical injuries than women assaulted by acquaintances.

          Women reporting rape within a relationship report an average of 20 sexual assaults during that relationship.

          Among developmentally disabled adults, as many as 83% of females and 32% of males have been sexually assaulted.

          Of 22 substances used in drug facilitated rapes, alcohol is the most common finding in investigations of drug facilitated sexual assault cases.

          For individuals with psychiatric disabilities, the rate of violent victimization including sexual assault is 2 times greater than the general population.

          Lifetime risk for violent victimization including sexual assault for women who live with homelessness and mental illness is 97%.

          Sue: even though these statistics show that black on white rape is not the biggest rape demographic, I would never minimize the trauma of any woman having to endure rape. If you or someone close to you has been the victim of such a crime, I have utmost support and empathy.

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      • My dear Madam Butterfly, I am always delighted when I am characterized as “ignorant” by those who obviously did not think while reading what I wrote. Delightful! Simply delightful. I have been called many things, but “ignorant” is the one I find most entertaining. It’s like calling England a desert island. What a hoot!

        Now, if you are indeed a serious person, I advise you to go back and actually read what I wrote, and think about how exquisitely foolish your initial response was, and then remember not to rush into print in the future with, what shall we say, “ignorant?,” off-the-cuff reactions. And perhaps you might consider an apology–but I expect that’s more than I can ask.

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      • Oh, and there’s this, for all the teeming masses out there taking in the show: Ms. Butterfly effortlessly demonstrated my “farm animal” thesis of the American liberal’s core racism in her emotional response to my remarks! Thanks! Africans are just passive farm animals! Whites could do anything to them and get away with it, and not have it impact on the business’s bottom line! (And once you get them hooked on welfare, they’ll vote for you for ever…. Oops. Could the liberal racists be right after all? I never made the connection.)

        No, just joking, As Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams prove, by the living of their lives, it is what liberal racists have systematically done to the black race in America that is the problem with that people group, not their genes.

        Like

      • I would strongly urge anyone wishing to gain an in-depth understanding of Elliott Rodger’s state of mind — through analysis of his manifesto and other sources — and how it propelled him to commit mass murder, to watch this excellent YouTube by philosopher, speaker, author, and host of Freedomain Radio, Stefan Molyneux:

        “A timeline of the mass shooting, predictability of such events, police failures, early childhood experiences, divorce, paternal abandonment, physical insecurities, jealousy, peer hierarchies, female credulity, discovering sex, video game obsession, bullying, racism, lottery obsession, financial entitlement, his sick ideology and the final day of retribution.”

        Like

        • Molyneux’s analysis is dependent on the assumption that one can rely on the mainstream media’s re-presentation of the event and broader narrative.

          Like

    • Funny thing about these manifestos – I remember the rogue LA cop wrote one too. Someone did a word analysis on it using a computer program which allegedly determines the gender of the writer, and it came out female. Not to say such programs are totally peer-reviewed and tested in double blind – just don’t know. But isn’t writing a manifesto just a little bit antique in our times? It’s like those diaries which assassins seem to have written, and which have been very much doubted by old school journalists, as either created after the fact to explain someone’s murky motives, or designed from the get-go to flesh out a cut-out. It may be seen, possibly, as part of the fictional suite of the character.

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      • The manifestos seem weird. I’ve read a lot of books in my life and have been taught by so many amazing authors, and when I read the Dorner manifesto and the Rodgers manifesto its just a jumbletron, It reads like a Saturday Night live sketch, written by consensus in a conference room somewhere. I agree Musings, they seem to be statements by ghostwriters who are thinking” Let’s write a storyline that ties up all the loose ends in this plot!.’….Oh look Scooby Doo, it wasreally old man Withers, all along.

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      • That’s interesting Musings. I don’t have anything as “scientific” as word analysis but I remember reading it and thinking “this is written by a woman”. It’s hard to define but there is just a certain “style”.

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  11. You can find the “Elliott Roger Manifesto” (My Twisted World. The Story of Elliot Rodger, By Elliot Rodger) here:
    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1173619/rodger-manifesto.pdf

    I have to admit that the manifesto sounds genuine and would provide a plausible (and very complete, perhaps too complete) explanation for the shootings.
    If you ask me, I would say the biggest culprits in the tragedy were distant parenting and divorce, video games, teen bullying, and the superficial obsession with wealth and physical appearance in Hollywood and Los Angeles — not access to guns. Curiously, there is no mention or indication of Aspergers.

    Elliott Roger had been seeing counselors and psychiatrists for a number of years. Its possible that one or more had notified the police quite a long time ago. I suppose it is remotely possible that the FBI found out about him and looking for a dupe, pushed him over the edge somehow, or hijacked him and did the shootings themselves, and afterward re-wrote portions of the manifesto.

    But until more information comes out, I will — reluctantly– follow the official story.

    Like

    • I would add pornography to that list, given his inability to understand the rules of attraction. That is, if his videos and manifesto really did express his own views before becoming a dupe. I think the porn may be giving a lot of young men an unrealistic view of how the whole thing really works.

      Like

    • You’d be amazed at how ingenious many of the even non-working screenwriters in the film industry are.

      Like

      • Yes indeed, Sue. There’s a real glut of them when you consider the graduates of Emerson College, Boston and Tisch School of the Arts NYU, and USC Film School – the list is endless, but the jobs are not. Those of us with a certain facility with words understand that we are as common as subway musicians who studied at Julliard. One is spoiled for choice if one wants a writer.

        Like

  12. Great podcast, thank you. The coverage in The Noozhawk generally has better coverage of news than the Independent. People are questioning the sheriffs department response but not much else. I have a feeling Sheriff Brown will not be in office come June, for many reasons, but for one thing his opponent Sandra Brown is a woman. This incident has left a great deal of unfocused anger towards men in general floating around. Also it looks like they were alerted about Elliot Rodger’s videos but didn’t view them… “At 10:17 p.m. April 30, the county Emergency Communications Center received a call from a mental-health professional with the Alcohol, Drug and Mental Health Department’s toll-free access line requesting that deputies check the welfare of Rodger, who lived at on apartment on the 6500 block of Seville Road in Isla Vista.

    The staff member indicated she had been contacted by a friend of Rodger, as well as Rodger’s mother, Chin Rodger.

    Four deputies and a UC Santa Barbara police officer assigned to the Isla Vista Foot Patrol plus a dispatcher in training responded to the call, and found Rodger outside his residence.

    “Deputies found Rodger to be shy, timid and polite. When questioned by the deputies about reported disturbing videos he had posted online, Rodger told them he was having trouble fitting in socially in Isla Vista and the videos were merely a way of expressing himself.”

    The law enforcement officers, who did not view the videos at that time, concluded that Rodger “was not an immediate threat to himself or others, and that they did not have cause to place him on an involuntary mental-health hold, or to enter or search his residence.

    ”’http://www.noozhawk.com/article/rodgers_policy_followed_meeting_isla_vista_killer_20140529
    Other articles:
    http://www.noozhawk.com/article/elliot_rodger_isla_vista_mass_murder_spree_20140526/comments#disqus_thread
    http://www.noozhawk.com/article/ucsb_isla_vista_community_grieves_for_students_killed_in_rampage_20140527/comments
    http://www.noozhawk.com/article/isla_vista_gunman_elliott_rodger_mental_illness_20140524/comments#disqus_thread.

    Like

    • Your top link’s article states:

      “The law enforcement officers, who did not view the videos at that time, concluded that Rodger “was not an immediate threat to himself or others, and that they did not have cause to place him on an involuntary mental-health hold, or to enter or search his residence.”

      The ‘involuntary mental-health hold’ he refers to is commonly known as a ‘screening.’ It is preposterous to think that a police department would take it upon themselves to somehow perform this protocol that is completely outside their bailiwick, especially in this day and age, and in a context where they’d had baffling and flag-raising interactions with Elliot in the recent past.

      When Elliot had been injured at the party in Isla Vista, how did he get to the hospital on a broken leg/ankle? Could he really have walked all the way there? If an ambulance had to be called, wouldn’t people have stuck around to inform the cops what happened?

      Why, when the cops came to his apartment, was he conveniently waiting outside for them? Had they come to the door wouldn’t the roommates have offered their input? Why, when Elliot allegedly conned some Isla Vista judge into convicting one of these roommates of a theft of a candle worth $20, didn’t the other one and friend go and offer their accounts of Elliot’s behavior?

      Why has the story changed back and forth multiple times regarding how the cops came to do a ‘welfare check?’ Now we hear that Chin Rodger and a ‘friend’ of Elliot’s called…the Alcohol, Drug and Mental Health Department’s toll free line. Can calls to that kind of line be traced (I’m betting the answer is no)? Why wouldn’t Elliot’s mother call the cops and his therapist directly with the evidence? Why with all this mounting drama and overt suicidal ideation in Elliot would the cops and his mother somehow decline forcing him into a psych evaluation?

      The plain fact is that the cops didn’t follow protocol. They took a concerned posse to Elliot’s apartment (and what exactly was his address on that block?) but not a screener, neither did they take Elliot into the ER for a *screening,* which is what the ER does.

      Alongside the sleight of rhetoric/protocol they’re trying to pull over on us, is the continuing problems in the narrative. We have an account from a previous roommate, who claims to have been concerned about Elliot but unwilling to ‘put himself out there:’

      http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-isla-vista-signs-hindsight-20140530-story.html

      So Rugg kept inviting Elliot out but Elliot refused, and then felt ‘rejected’ by everyone? How does that go? In another article the roommate claims to have heard Elliot clicking his gun, but we’re to believe he never contacted authorities.

      In the link above, demands for a name to be attached to the fight at Isla Vista have finally been met. One of the male partygoers claims to have shoved Elliot away from the women, and then watched him ‘run away.’

      On a broken ankle or leg?

      Like

  13. http://abcnews.go.com/US/santa-barbara-killer-elliot-rodger-smiled-shooting-survivor/story?id=23923970

    So now they’re claiming an entire posse of cops went to Elliot’s apartment, including a ‘dispatcher in training.’ And they’re admitting that they had dealt with him before.

    An entire posse of cops for a ‘welfare check,’ but no on site screener, no casual drop off at the ER for a screening, huh?

    If the american people allow their constitution to be abolished over these theatrics of the absurd, then we deserve whatever we get.

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    • “If the american people allow their constitution to be abolished over these theatrics of the absurd, then we deserve whatever we get.”

      We’re going to get it, Sue, as Mencken said, “good and hard.” I don’t think we have much longer to wait for it, either.

      He’s the guy who came up with the term “Boobus Americanus,” incidentally. He had our number.

      Like

      • Yeah Patrick, I have a pet peeve with that attitude that suggests that, somehow we “allowed” all this to happen, so it’s our fault. This is patently ridiculous. It is based on the belief that we have a real government that is responsive to our demands. I’ve never understood why accepting blame for the actions of the psychopaths who rule us is so attractive to some.

        A while back we had a minor meltdown here over the “do something” argument. Do what? If there is any part of this that people have to understand it is their relationship to those who are steering this ship of fools. You can scream “iceberg” all day. You can’t turn the ship.

        None of this is a “mistake”. This is a plan and its well on its way to fruition. I like to tell people that they are not going to announce the take over. It’s already happened. As you say, the only question is, will it be “hard” or “slow”.

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      • lophatt, as I read the articles shilling for this hoax day by day, I realize how powerful the full effect of zionist ownership of the media is. The american people are too busy working and trying to survive (those that aren’t hooked into the federal government, that is) that they just don’t have time to figure out that the scam isn’t just the hoax itself, but the way it’s spun as well by pretty much every ‘journalist.’

        The link I put up last night in which some blonde woman proclaims that the cops and ‘professionals’ followed ‘every letter of the law’ sums up how far outside of our control it all is. The lies just keep aggregating, and when not one journalist will come out and expose what’s easy to find out about screenings and committals, I guess it’s not really the fault of the people.

        I disagree, however, that we should just sit back and narrate. I know several people in my life who insist that they won’t ‘die on their knees,’ and neither will I.

        So if anyone would like to connect and at the least be in contact to even just provide support for one another I’m game. I think in this situation there’s more safety, and possibly even some gains, in numbers.

        Like

      • Well Sue, I don’t think I’ve ever suggested that we “just sit and narrate”. I have said that, if someone is going to “do something” they should be aware of what they’re up against.

        I have suggested actions that people can use effectively. I’m always open to suggestions.

        I agree we live in the ZOG. They are the premier players. Zionism is just the current phase. We have some agreement here that the real controllers are hidden. They are. That doesn’t mean that their employees don’t do their will.

        I know that I’m misunderstood but I don’t know another way to describe what I mean. I think some understand it. I’m not saying that “we have a choice” to “sit” or “do”. What is the point of doing something that has absolutely no chance of success? If there was something I’d be on it like “a rat on a Cheeto”.

        We are watching someone else’ movie. We are not making decisions here. We can make PERSONAL decisions. You make it sound like there are options and I’m too uncommitted to take one of them. Maybe you believe that there are. I don’t think so, but, I’d love to hear one.

        When opportunity presents itself we should seize it. I try in my small way every chance I get. But, all that aside, it boils down to what we will do individually. I’m not planning to die on my knees either. If it comes to that I won’t go alone.

        I don’t say what I do about this because I like it and it makes me happy. I say what I do because that is my judgement. If you think that storming the barricades and becoming one less “doubter” is effective, I suppose it can be done. I’m not sure what it would accomplish.

        People are free to do what they think they need to do. I happen to think that life is valuable, everyone’s life is valuable. Losing one’s life may be the highest form of honor, or it can be the highest form of stupidity. I’d love to say that there are a vast army of people ready to “rise up” and put things right if they just had the right encouragement. I don’t think that’s the case. Maybe in time it will be, but not right now.

        It is frustrating and I’m as frustrated by it as anyone else. If I could will it to be something else, I would. Mostly, what we have control over is ourselves. My suggestion is that you know your enemies and don’t cooperated with them.

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        • I was once a fire breather, trying to move mountains. It still rears up in me from time to time. We are in a place in the cycle where it is most likely a time to turn a little bit inward. Unfortunately most of us won’t live long enough to see the cycle return to a state of freedom. I saw it described in a circle once that starts out with tyranny at the bottom.

          Tyranny- courage- liberty- prosperity- apathy- dependence- and back to tyranny.

          I think we are moving quickly through the dependence stage(not to say that apathy isn’t in full swing as well) approaching tyranny. The next full blown tyranny will most likely be the last. Those of us who wish to fight the good fight were most likely born in the wrong time. I know I was. Lophatt’s wisdom on this will most likely turn out to be the correct course. Most of us here are free people already because we choose not to live in the reality of the masses and their masters. We press on, try to pass the fire on so it won’t be forgotten, and have a line that will not be crossed in the end.

          Like

      • I’d like to be presented with one example of this cycle, Rich. I’d like to be hopeful, but I can’t think of any society or civilization that has undergone anything like it. What I see is great civilizations steadily deteriorating, and then being eliminated by conquest. Mostly, the people conquered are lost to history. Israel was never completely lost–just displaced–so it might be the exception, but the millennia-long discontinuity makes one wonder if its current, prosperous, incarnation as a country can be counted.

        Now, we don’t know much about the world before the Great Flood, but we know that the waters were sent to wash it all away because it could not be “fixed.” Since then, the civilizations we know of pretty much universally fell into tyranny and weakened until another rushed in and took over the land and replaced the people.

        Civilizations aside, we are also hard pressed to identify a society within one of them where anything like that cycle you mention can be identified. Maybe the germanic polities, which became Germany–I could be convinced, possibly. Maybe England, too, although it’s impossible for me to imagine a repeat of the Elizabethan resurrection of greatness, or even the moral transformation Wilberforce accomplished under Victoria.

        Most races and peoples and cultures and civilizations simply squander their inheritance until there is nothing left, and are pretty much forgotten. That’s reality. I advise us to get used to it, because we are inside the final stage of that story in our own time/place. Denial is a river in Egypt, a country that is failing today in an utterly catastrophic way (search “Spengler Egypt” to get the whole, horrifying, story).

        I choose not to live in denial. As you know well, because you read my first book, I see our time as being the very first moments of a new civilization which has already replaced the West. My advice, always, is to not be in denial, to get used to it. The dead must be left to bury the dead; we need to move on, accepting reality. Our choice is either to convert our minds to the new civilizational world view–if that is even possible–or to recognize that we are now strangers in a strange land and accept it, even if we regret the loss of the world we loved; we are like the Jews in Babylon, who hung up their harps because they could not sing the songs of Zion in exile.

        The other day I tried to compose a post on my blog about the strange new world we live in, specifically the astounding rapidity with which the idea of “gender” has morphed into the “trans” thing we are being bombarded with. I discovered that a brief essay can’t do the trick. It is a huge thing. So I put it on hold. Perhaps I’ll write a book about it, if I can find the time.

        But the point of my attempt at making remarks about the strangeness of the entirely new “trans” “gender” civilizational reality we are forced to endure, is the fact that it is all so completely new, and is speeding up on a logarithmic scale–and that we are all expected to be up to speed with it. Well, I’m 54, and no one my age stays up to speed with such civilizational transformations. Those who have read my second book know that my daughter is now 18. Although she has been raised in a completely Christian context, she has lots of friends on the “trans” spectrum, and considers all this weird sexuality entirely normal. She has breathed the New Civilization’s air her entire life, wherever she went to school, and however her family’s friends thought about the world, and while she does indeed respect the West, the New Civilization is hers. I could not force her to think like those in the West think if I tried.

        What do we do about this? Face reality. The West will never come back into being. Large families will never again be typical. Cultural norms that have at their core Biblical morality will not regain centrality. What we face is unknown, but I know that it will look a lot more like ancient Rome than it will Europe in the year 1100. I’d go back to 1100 in a heartbeat, but that’s not an option. I live here, now, and the best I can do is understand the reality I face.

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        • Patrick, the aforementioned cycle actually goes like this. Bondage-faith-courage-liberty-abundance-selfishness-complacency-apathy-dependence-bondage. It is attributed to Alexander Tytler a Scotsman who died in1813. Their is actually no proof that he actually came up with it. He was also credited with the quote we have often heard about democracy regarding the people eventually voting in those who promise them the greatest amount of rewards from the treasury. Some Credit Toqueville with this quote as well.

          I read on wiki that the cycle seems to have showed up in the ’40’s in some businessmans speech. Tytler did have ideas regarding democracies however. Seems he thought that they could be productive, but he theorized that all governments were really a type of monarchy no matter how you chose your King. Regardless of whether I can produce an example, the cycle fits the USA somewhat, but to be a cycle it will have to start again. Like I said, I don’t think we have time for that. Looking back though, Tytler was right, we really just changed the way we chose our King. Was America ever in bondage, probably not, like any child it wanted to be free of its parents to chose its own destiny.

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      • As a “student of history”, Patrick, you have a very valid point. As Rich says, there are “cycles”. Well, at least there WERE. There is a difference between examples of empire and control being exercised by countries and groups within the context of other countries and groups. This, as you say, is new.

        I keep trying to point out that just because someone says “today the U.S. did such and so…..” or “Today the U.K. outlawed mental masturbation or something”, it MEANS that the “country” itself, or its inhabitants did ANYTHING.

        There are controllers and they owe no allegiance to anything other than their own personal aims. They have place their self-serving agents in most countries to achieve their ends.

        In the past, rulers could only last as long as those they ruled were willing to fight to keep them in power. In the current scenario there is no “opposition” country or group that is going to supply a platform for rebirth. They will push their agenda as long and as hard as they can. About the most that can be hoped for is that their hubris will be their undoing.

        It is widely known that population reduction is one of the primary objectives. So, wars and plague don’t bother these creatures. Indeed, they are delighted by them. It isn’t about money. It is only about wealth in the sense of them not wanting to allow anyone the means to ignore them. To be free means not being dependent.

        So watching Obongo or Cameron or (fill in the blank), is like watching reruns of SHES. It’s a hoax. But just like those hoaxes, the hoax goes on whether anyone believes it or not.

        What you say about “denial” is absolutely true. I say the same thing a slightly different way. I understand the desire to fix this. I have it as well. But, I don’t delude myself by thinking that this is a passing phase and, somehow, it will pass away.

        No one should give up their sense of outrage. I despise what we’re going through. And when we go through the whole “cycle” I hope my moral outrage sustains me. These mutts can take a lot away but they can’t steal your faith. If we live our lives consistent with our believes we’ve already won.

        Like

      • An apology for the typos (I need to proofread!).

        “it MEANS that the “country” itself, or its inhabitants did ANYTHING”.

        should read: “it doesn’t MEAN that the ‘country’ itself or its inhabitants…”

        Also: “…consistent with our BELIEFS, (not believes), (sigh!)

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        • “it doesn’t MEAN that the ‘country’ itself or its inhabitants…”

          This often bothers me, but how else do you give the impression that entire countries hate each other. It also pisses me off when I see headlines like that because now everyone in some far off place hates me now because the US did this or the US did that. Then I think that hopefully they are like me and don’t believe anything the media or government says anyway.

          The depopulation thing seems true on one hand, but on the other hand how will they fuel the never ending cycle of consumption? I received a quote on a flooring job yesterday and was immediately bombarded with ads for flooring. How long before they just send some schmuck to the house? How can you get a dead man to take 10 prescription pills a day by the time he is 60? Good God, if they lower the acceptable cholesterol numbers any more, everyone over the age of six will be on Crestor.

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    • Lophatt – I understand your position. You have contemplated the rabbit hole a very long time and I know you are wide awake.

      Promise me that, when the time comes, should you determine that there exists an effective strategy, you will herald it as loudly as you can.

      In the interim, peace to you and yours.

      Like

  14. As usual, all good insights. I posted a couple of links to this “problem” a few days ago on another topic at this site. Apparently nobody “bit”, but that’s OK.

    There are some striking features to this and most of the posters have picked up at least some of them. Early on there were MULTIPLE versions of this story, but not the “usual” fog of war type errors, I mean fully-formed versions that were incompatible with each other.

    Now, as others have said here, it is not “normal” (in the past sense at any rate) for stories to “emerge” that quickly with all the details like this did. Some versions had stabbings as well as assaults by car. Some had another suspect being arrested.

    The sheriff refused to discuss ANY other means of injury other than guns. He “hinted” that there were other, non-gun related injuries, but wouldn’t talk about them. Why? Well, that was the authorized meme and he was sticking to it.

    Again, as others have said, it has become anathema for anyone to doubt the story, even if it has multiple versions. You are to heed the voice of authority, no matter what. Only “terrorists” and Muslims doubt authority. Remember that!

    One of the screaming characters, a “father” I think, involved here is right out of Central Casting. As a matter of fact, I believe I’ve seen his act before. He resembles the father of the slain boyfriend in the O.J. Simpson fiasco.

    So, as usual, we are left with a portion that is clearly hyped beyond reason for an agenda, and a portion that certainly didn’t happen as described and need to sort out if it happened at all.

    So, it gets a perfect “10” for hype and political exploitation. The degree of falsity is difficult to assess. As with the others we’ve looked at, the emotion is the message, not the details. So, as Sparky Bush would say, they’re “hyping the propaganda”. I am concerned, however, with the push to “faith-based” journalism. It appears that us “doubters” are to be relegated to the ranks of “heretics”.

    Like

      • By the way, I happened to see a long broadcast last night (two hours) which I think is a repeat, on American Experience, PBS, about a shooting in Amish country, Lancaster County, several years before Sandy Hook which might have inspired that psyop.

        It was a story in which a disturbed local milkman who collected milk from Amish farmers took over a schoolhouse, shooed out the boys, and attacked ten schoolgirls, killing five of them. The Amish families responded in a very conciliatory way towards his surviving family afterwards, and then also grieved in a communal way, being very publicly peaceful and not taking up arms afterwards to defend themselves. Their communal and non-violent lifestyle, while admirable in some ways, is very difficult to copy but I think some people have tried. I also feel that farmers naturally understand death differently than most, so that a seemingly stoical attitude comes naturally. But in their case, the belief in God is paramount. Someone in a voiceover interview said that this was some part of God’s infinite plan which she did not presume to understand.

        If you try and superimpose this on upper middle class Americans, a lot of the behavior and dialogue would sound like something from Stephen King or Twilight Zone – just not arising from the real circumstances of their lives, with diverse responses and different backgrounds (though perhaps presently with similar wealth). Yet if you wanted to convince people that total non-violence and acceptance was a worthy way of reacting, it might make a good advertising campaign, the way you can sell “farm-fresh” butter-like substances. There is one thing missing: the families interacting with and comforting the surviving Lanza’s. Didn’t see it. Of course, I regard the whole thing as a commercial for repealing the Second Amendment.

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        • I would say the Amish reaction was not just due to a belief in God, but also from a desire to please God. I remember this incident. Who do the phonies of Newtown have to please except themselves.

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  15. Pingback: Eyewitnesses: Two Shooters Involved in UCSB Massacre |

  16. The question, as always, as these pageants increasingly become speed-presented (I’ve heard about speed-dating) is this: how stupid do they think we are? Why does the evidence add up to crazy lies? Why is it always that way? Why so breathless that we can’t catch our reporting breath, hairdo at the anchor desk, as we report “from the scene”? But really, why don’t the viewers seem to care?

    Well, the answer is: they think we are plenty stupid. We, here, at MHB, turn to each other to compare notes on how obviously stupid the whole thing is. Yet, we will not find a way to convince those around us, in physical reality, to notice this obviousness.

    I wrote a comment about that aspect an hour or so ago on the Tracy thread with Allan Weisbecker, so I won’t repeat myself. What I want to express here is the awareness we need to develop of the pattern we are being subjected to. History, like the weather, is now being engineered. We are subject to that engineering. Those who gather here see it happening easily, so I’m not introducing some great insight; what I’m doing is reminding us to stand well back, and see the broad sweep of the thing.

    Incidentally, that’s another great thing about James’ and Allan’s conversation in part 2: the observation that all of the events this blog cares about, starting with John Kennedy’s murder, are individual beads on one continuous thread. (For those who have not been around that long, I identify the change in who we are as Americans with the election of Lincoln, not the murder of Kennedy–but I fear I’ve veered into the other thread again. Sorry about that.)

    Like

    • Response from “Sue,” who is having trouble posting this specific comment, after several attempts.

      “They think the average person is either a moron or just a lemming. To add to my comment just above, Asperger’s was taken out of the DSM in 2011, I’m fairly certain as I spoke right after Sandy Hook with a friend who has an aspies son. So all this hoopla is about a disorder that the psych system itself doens’t consider a ‘mental illness.’ It’s incredible.

      There are so many holes in the narrative I don’t know where to begin:
      The incident when Elliot got one of the roommates prosecuted for stealing his $20 candle. Find me a prosecutor in a small town, much less a small city, who will waste his time prosecuting a roommate who allegedly stole a candle worth $20. In real life, the prosecutor would laugh at the concept and maybe tell the accuser they could prosecute it himself as the law allows. I think the small amount is to convince us that the roommate just didn’t feel like fighting or something over it. It would be interesting to try to find court papers about this, or a transcript. The point of fabricating the incident if they indeed did is to provide another example of how ‘mentally ill’ Elliot could ‘con’ those in power, like cops or judges.

      Where are the names of these people Elliot allegedy fought with at the party where he broke his ankle or leg (depending on which version you read)? Why hasn’t one person come forward to verify this? What hospital treated him? They’re claiming it happened in Isla Vista. How is it that when Elliot was mouthing off about a group of people attacking him the actual group of people who had multiple witnesses of his aggression weren’t believed? Reports claim the cops investigated but didn’t know who to believe. Did they consider having a screener come talk to a person blabbing about people attacking him without any friends or supporters to back up his story? Wouldn’t starting a fight that wound you up in a hospital possibly be a red flag?

      Supposedly the same police department that ‘investigated’ that also dealt with the candle theft, and then finally went to perform the welfare check on Elliot which should have been a mission to screen him.
      The stories keep getting revised every six hours as more questions about the holes and glaring inconsistencies are posed, but who besides us and TPTB are paying close attention?!

      Peter Rodger’s father shot some of the famous photos at Bergen-Belsen, and his present wife’s father is associated with CIA.”

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      • That’s an excellent point. They must be low on crime in Santa Barbara. $20 candle? They just throw this stuff out there, like confetti. It is utterly bizarre.

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      • I read last night, lophatt, that Isla Vista is the most densely populated square mile in California, and that it’s governed by a county prosecutor (someone else pointed out this ‘unincorporated’ status before me above.

        It’s even more unlikely that any prosecutor or judge at the county level, much less a busy one at that, gave Elliot the time of day with his alleged whining about a $22 candle ‘theft’ between roommates.

        Yup, pretty much D grade character development here.

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  17. http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/elliot-rodger-s-california-rampage-shows-gaps-in-mental-health-law-1.8252246

    The legislation that’s being pushed as we speak calls for committal based on someone ‘needing treatment.’ The present criteria is that someone needs to be deemed an imminent threat to themselves or others by dint of ‘mental illness.’

    The link claims Elliot was interviewed by the cops. Some accounts are still going with the ‘mental health officials’ calling the cops after Elliot’s mom alerted them upon seeing some of the videos. Regardless of who called the cops, they would have been obliged by policy to bring the person to an ER for screening as they aren’t supposed to be the arbiters of who gets committed or not. California law or policy also calls for bringing screeners on site if there’s extra doubt about whether the person needs to be brought to the ER.

    So why did the cops ignore Elliot’s mother’s claims that he was suicidal and had a history of emotional issues (I’m going with that version because it’s the one they’re going to run with from hereon out)? Surely they knew they could be sued for failing to force him to be screened, and it’s not part of their job to screen people anyway.

    It didn’t happen, I’m 100% certain. But it’s a way for the handlers of this operation to push legislation that makes the psych system’s power even more tyrannical than it already is. So they can claim a 72 hour hold still isn’t enough to determine whether someone is an imminent threat to themselves or others by dint of mental illness. Since this storyline holds that *some* people knew Elliot had problems, the reality is that a screener could easily call his parents or friends, etc., while he was being held in an ER. Even gullible people wouldn’t believe there was no history or notice of such emotional issues in someone this ‘dangerous.’ This hoax plays with this notion of who ‘knows.’ On the one hand, a ‘normal’ person probably wouldn’t have made those videos so no one would have ‘known.’ On the other, if he didn’t allegedly have asperger’s his own horniness and drive to connect with others would have absolutely caused plenty of problems for him well before this point, so it’s not really some gaping hole in the system’s protocol that it’s being spun as. A screener finds out the guy has asperger’s and decides to commit him to the hospital psych ward where the average stay is 5-10 days. It’s also ridiculous to think that someone that out of control could contain their rage for three days in involuntary confinement. If they could then they aren’t ‘manic’ or out of control and know what they’re doing, hence not ‘mentally ill.’

    This latest hoax, which at least half of it is, gets to the heart of the definiton of mental illness. The idea of interning and drugging people is because they’re allegedly not aware of themselves and what they’re doing. The reason Asperger’s is used as a vehicle by TPTB is so that the general population conflates the difference between character issues and evildoing and ‘mental illness.’ If Elliot didn’t allegedly have asperger’s wouldn’t it be easier to point out that he’s just a spoiled twisted monster?

    In ER’s it’s common for screeners and doctors to lie to commit people when the subject has insurance that they want to collect. The standard MO is to claim the person threatened suicide, as suicidality is considered at the least a form of ‘temporary insanity.’ It’s a lot harder to lie and claim someone is homicidal by dint of a mental illness, as then there have to be other people involved, it’s clearly an accusation (as opposed to ‘benevolence’ on the part of the hospital) and there need to be other people to concretely accuse, who could just as easily be aggressors as vice versa (not to mention that hating someone isn’t really a function of mental illness/psychosis anyway). These asperger’s killers are really a way for the psych system to brainwash the populace to believe that hatred and aggression really can be integral to some form of mental illness. Once they push the legislation through, it’s open season on anyone who dissents, or who is inconvenient. It’s easier to spin a vindictive entitled murderer who has asperger’s as ‘mentally ill’ in some way even when they’re clearly totally aware of themselves and what they’re doing than someone without it.

    No one will give into suspending the Bill of Rights over the idea that someone might have killed just themselves. So homicide as a function of ‘mental illness’ has been the project of the ‘mental health officials.’

    So far the new legislation has 84 co sponsors and would allow the state to intern and force-medicate someone just because they ‘need treatment.’ And since there is no specific criteria for internment, there is also no time limit on how long the state can keep someone. This is also warm up to make sure that the state can force medicate people even outside of imprisonment.

    Only long stays in some state instituion monitored by the gods otherwise known as ‘psychiatrists’ can determine whether someone is ‘dangerous’ by dint of being ‘mentally ill.’ According to this BS short horror film not even one’s friends could really know if someone suffers a serious ‘mental illness.’ That’s the other angle they’re working with asperger’s. They’re trying to say that on the one hand Elliot was full of yearning and lust and need for attention, but on the other he was totally withdrawn and not interactive and non-violating of other people – a profile which suits their ‘normal mortals can never know’ agenda.

    I have been warning about this for some time on here. I’m still freaked out beyond belief that total tyranny has come upon us so soon and with so little challenge to it.

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  18. Is anyone having problems posting at times? Sometimes I write out a long comment and it just vanishes when I press post. I’ve noted this happening on other sites related to this issue, and am told by a top computer guy it’s technically possible for someone besides the site’s admin to be messing with it. I’ve heard reports of this type of phenomenon happening to other people on other sites, usually with very controversial political subjects.

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  19. CNN was getting mocked by the comedians for overkill coverage on the missing plane so they were given this story to fill the air time.

    Flipped over there today just to check in on the latest propaganda and low and behold, the pings they thought were the plane is not a plane at all, but some other type of manmade thing. Seven weeks after the story, they are wondering if too much time was spent searching in the wrong place!

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  20. Not sure if my posting went through — three videos. Look up Free Radio Revolution, Red Pill Revolution, TeamWakeEmUp, ThePaulStalService, on youtube for very damning evidence, some of which might overlap what’s already been posted here. But, the bigger smoking guns are (1) lack of blood spatter in the crashed car, when the official story is that Rodger shot himself in the head; (2) illegal clean up of blood at crime scene in the convenience store; (3) police reports of two suspects, as reported here by Dr. Tracy and on-line by Dahboo7; (4) the mysterious disappearing bicycle — now you see it, now you don’t. Then, of course, all the suspicious characters — the weird Martinez father who’s immediately politicizing his son’s death and doing some very bad acting; the bizarre eyewitnesses who are amateurish at best. Oh well, just another day and another hoax — we should be used to this by now, right? All guns will be outlawed before long, probably by the U.N. and their arms treaty.

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    • Perhaps the crime is real, but the reporting is fake. Finding eyewitnesses is very important to Networks. Without them they have noting more than their reporters talking about the crime, and that is not as exciting to viewers.

      So they find a couple of teens, and tell them what to say!?

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      • Just want to remind people of this:

        What they needed was a tin can phone, not satellite connection. It’s a good clip to show folks that do not believe media is mostly fake.

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      • “Perhaps the crime is real, but the reporting is fake. Finding eyewitnesses is very important to Networks.”

        where do you come up with this stuff? I haven’t seen one thing that makes me think there were any real elements to this.

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        • Being cautious thats all! So far the information we have is limited. I am not going to call it a psy ops or false flag or conspiracy or anything just yet!

          The radio show posted by Joel was very interesting. The “manifesto” that Elliot Rodger left sounds very scripted, like it was written for an old 80´s TV series. If ER really used language that way I can understand he had social problems. But he doesn’t, we’ve seen him talk in his videos.

          Elliots channel on YT is still up. Why? None of his videos have viewer counts over 1 million. Is that reasonable considering everyone is talking about him atm?

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          • oh, ok. I was just wondering because I have heard others say this one seems real and I am just wondering what I have missed.

            Anyone else found any part of this that seems believable?

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      • Well, I wouldn’t be “Nancy Grace certain” it’s real. Given what we know about these things I’d say the “cautious” approach would be total disbelief until proven otherwise.

        “Director Girl” could be a stand-in for that Israel woman. “Where’s my line? Harvey, what page are we on?”.

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        • It’s just that the “socially awkward crazy kid” meme has evolved so much this time. No longer do we see posing with guns, “right wing” sympathies, dressing up in para military gear or anything exotic.

          This is all Hollywood, there is a book and a movie series, plenty of backstory to go geek out on.

          One thing I reacted to was his sunglasses. He brags that they are 300 dollar Giorgio Armani. I know some brats, 300 bucks is a pair of shoelaces to them! Surely he would spend more on shades than on guns…

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  21. Posted on behalf of “Calimom.”

    This happened close to home and I am still processing it. What a sad event in so many ways. I want to write more extensively on it, the milieu where it takes place, the campus environment and some of the incidents leading up to it, also things like the fact that Sheriff Bill Brown is up for reelection. I will find the time to do this soon. Thank you for documenting the reporting at the crime scenes. I was told that the sheriff’s deputies were instructed not to talk to the press because of the bad press from the riots that took place at a campus celebration called Deltopia back in April. This was the reason all the reporters there, unable to get any soundbites from the sheriff’s department, got many more first hand witness accounts than they usually do.

    I have to say the father of Christopher Martinez and his reaction to his son’s death, raised some flags for me. He actually had the students chanting, “not one more” at the campus memorial. I wonder how he can do that when he just lost his only son and iif he is a crisis actor, my husband says no, he’s a real father who was probably handed a script and told he could make some sense out of his son’s death by tying it to a political agenda. It was hard for me to watch him either way. I felt there was something very wrong there. He came across like a Sandy Hook parent. I wonder if he is not a real parent, all drugged up to not feel his grief, spun around, and sent out, script in hand partially to discredit those who question the Sandy Hook parents. TPTB are more afraid of ideas and critical thinkers then they are an armed populace, who they obviously out-gun.

    I am not sure how this horrible incident, which I feel involved real deaths but was seems somehow scripted behind the scenes, becomes a movement called yes to all women. I see this as more divide and conquer. Perhaps it is an attempt to channel feminist anger about the amount of sexual assaults on campus away from the University and onto the dead perpetrator?

    There is the anti-second amendment angle, the mental health angle, the anti-male angle…It is a lot to process. Once again the air feels heavy with the weight of this. But I am heartened by people who stop to think critically about these issues, like teamwakeemup and this blog and its commentators. In this video posted on GLP by LionWarrior28, watch the eyewitness being fed what to say on TV, it seems to be important that she say BMW. (also please stop the video after the CNN clip if you don’t like swearing…)

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    • Here’s some more proof of staging that I found, moving the IV Deli to the Isla Vista Bookstore temporarily for the FF Shoot:

      I’ve been doing street views of the IV Deli where one of the shootings took place. Something about it wasn’t looking right in the crime scene photos like this one:

      http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608011878580948862&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

      Here is a link to the city-data page showing 6553 Pardall which is Isla Vista Book Store (CA Sec of State shows MERGED status – but doesn’t say with what other company).

      http://www.city-data.com/santa-barbara-county/P/Pardall-Road-2.html

      Look at street view and go north a little and to the right you will see the book store – which looks exactly like the IV Deli Mart shown in the picture above, right down to the street light at the end of the building – no mistaking – they used the bookstore as the deli. Anyways, the real deli is on a corner and curves and shares the building with Ventura Enterprises. I guess that’s why they had the “employees” cleaning up the bloody mess left by one of the victims before the CSI team arrived.

      Here is the city data page that shows 6549 Pardall which is the address for the Deli. Both properties are owned by the DELORES M VENTURA ANGLIN TRUST (it’s interesting because they have the wording of this trust all different ways on property owned by it – also, lots of trusts own property in that little town). Interestingly they show the value of the deli as $117,000 (the actual location) and the Book Store is valued at over $2M.

      http://www.city-data.com/santa-barbara-county/P/Pardall-Road-2.html

      Also, found this picture which is clearly manipulated to make the building look like it’s on a corner – if you look to the right you can see the parking lot that goes with this book store.

      Why would they have a sign saying IV Deli at the curb where the flowers are – is that a sign for the filming crew to use this IV Deli not the Real one – looks tacky and really there’s no explanation for it since they have letters on the facade with the name clearly visible.

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    • Magically appearing bicycles? Is someone trying to get a message out with that one? Seemed awful easy to catch.

      And lets talk about offensiveness. We were showed nothing regarding veideo or stills of Adam Lanza approaching the school, blood, bodies under tarps. But here we get it all, even a manifesto, and video of the creep. Is this not offensive to the victims families? Why the new tactics?

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    • It’s the little clues like that which always clinch it for me. Yes, as butterfly wrote, the filming of the Elliott monologues was evidence of staging to a trained eye. But this simple thing can be deduced by anyone – I expect them to photoshop in a bike once they realize the problem.

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    • That’s excellent! One other point, he supposedly commits this at 9:30 at night. They let the body lay there until sometime the next day? Why?

      He encounters a total of five cops on foot? In Santa Barbara? Hmmmm? The only time they are on foot there is if the donut shop doesn’t have a drive up window.

      The crime scene looks staged. He’s shot in the hip and then blows his brains out and there is no blood. The bike is obvious. There is no logical reason for that.

      Just like SHES, all we have is what they “show” on TV.

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  22. I’ve been watching this whole story like a hawk for the last 2-3 days. One major development is that the narrative has changed from claiming that Elliot’s mom, after seeing one of the videos in which Elliot expressed suicidailty, called his ‘therapist’ who then called a ‘mental health clinic’ who then called the cops. This has been written about by some people on various blogs.

    Then last night the AP updated their article and ‘revised’ this critically important piece in the narrative to claim that Elliot’s mom called the cops directly. Prior to that change, reports yesterday were naming a Dr. Sophy, psychiatrist to the likes of Paris Hilton, as the doctor who prescribed Risperidone to Elliot in 2013 (Elliot names him in his manifesto I think, too). During the day articles stated Elliot had only seen Sophy three times, and that at the time of the murders he’d been seeng two psychologists. His lawyer said one was in Santa Barbara and the other in southern California.

    More tough challenges to this latest assertion followed, and by last night the entire story was changed. So now it’s Elliot’s mom simply called the cops herself. They’re clearly terrified of having to name either of these psychologists (no insurance would pay for someone to see two psychologists because two would be redundant). I don’t think there was any such psychologist.

    The cops cannot commit people; they can only take someone to an ER for a psych evaluiation (where people can be held up to 72 hours before having to be released or committed officially). It’s absurd to think that Elliot’s mom didn’t give them the evidence, and call some therapist of some kind to make sure her son was committed. The cops would have gone to Elliot’s apartment and either called in a screener or just taken Elliot by force to the ER. IF they had not, Elliot’s mom would have followed through with her video evidence…

    So this part of the narrative which this new totalitarian legislation is seeking to compensate for is pure BS. The system didn’t fail. This is either a total black/psyop or a cover up for the rich and famous. Or some combination of both.

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    • Sue, “this new totalitarian legislation” is the underlying problem with all of it. The society is becoming steadily more top-down, and our other enumerated rights have already been terminally violated to the point where there is absolutely no privacy from government intrusion. Now the details are being worked out. We can see that a legislative attempt to reverse the post-9/11 war powers lost in the Congress, although many Democrats and few Republicans voted for it. The bad tree does not bear good fruit anymore. The question is how to deal with it – girdle it by defying and ignoring it, and stomping on the bad fruit – or chop it down. Big question.

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    • Sue, I hear ya’! Think of the Aurora project, and SHES. Changing stories are stock and trade of the drill business. They put it out there, then they pull it back and substitute a new storyline.

      They can do that with “real” events as well as manufactured ones. There was a time when “news” was primarily about information. They weren’t so interested in telling us what we are supposed to think about it. Now it is used for a springboard for their legislative actions. They create a crisis so that they can implement their predetermined agenda in response.

      No matter the subject, the pattern is the same. Between the obvious connections of the various players (the shrink, the dad, even “Hunger Games” from the author in Newtown!), it looks a bit suspicious. There is that ranting “Goldman” look-alike screaming for gun confiscation.

      I’m starting to wonder more about why they choose certain projects to hype more than others. Notice that you never hear about Aurora any longer. What about the patsy’s parents. Where are they? I guess they’ve served their purpose.

      They stage these things and hype them day and night and then, they’re gone. Don’t forget that other things, at least as newsworthy, don’t get reported at all. Those are the things that conflict with the agenda.

      So the range of belief is everything from total fabrication, to actually allowing (or encouraging) him to act for their purposes. Honestly, I don’t put anything past them.

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  23. Let’s not forget that Janet Napolitano left DHS after she completed her SH & BM projects and was named President of U of C in July 2013:

    http://www.ihatethemedia.com/janet-napolitano-named-president-of-the-university-of-california

    I’ve watched a few videos on this and the photo above showing the 2 cops at the deli was the subject in one of Max Malone’s. He pointed out that there is replacement glass sitting right inside the doorway that is ready to replace the glass broken by the gunshots. Also, I keep seeing pictures of the employees of that deli cleaning up the mess, including blood, from the supposed murder of one of the patrons in the store. Really – this isn’t a crime scene – you have the employees clean up the mess?

    Interesting that the IV Deli is only valued at $117,000 – pretty low for that neighborhood.

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  24. There’s a lot of little stuff too – lack of crime-scene tape marking off areas, no hazmat/biofluid cleanup crews, cops handcuff Rodgers when he’s reportedly already dead, strange activity on his youtube channel, ‘rampage against blondes’ with only one blonde victim – and of course the overly-aggressive “grieving” parent with no tears but plenty of facetime on camera…

    It concerns me that once again Asperger’s (autism spectrum) is being called a severe mental illness and possible cause – seems awfully convenient now that the diagnosis rate for autism is something like 1 in 65? I don’t think anyone watching his videos sees him as mentally deficient – a lot of other psycho terms no doubt, but he comes across as perfectly functional, not ‘severely’ autistic.

    youtube channels ReviewManify & TeamWakeEmUp show some interensting points – but the ‘two men’ was the first thing that caught my eye, and the inconsistency of whether he was apprehended or killed? sheesh – rings a bell

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    • Few people have met as many Asperger diagnosed people as I have. From my experience they are not at all violent or aggressive. In fact I’d say most seem to lack aggressiveness, and seem to have very low libidos generally.

      At 22 years old, it seem unlikely someone of his generation is undiagnosed. Especially coming from an affluent background. There should be no reason for him getting the best help money can buy.

      Aspergers is in the HFA spectrum of autism, i.e. “high functioning autism”. You often need to know someone very well to suspect he/she has Aspergers.

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      • I would also imagine there are some Aspy people who do serious work for the feds – NSA, even post office. Don’t know where all this is going, but it seems like a new form of scapegoating. The idea that someone with this syndrome can suddenly pop off and turn into a monster – so cruel. But then targeting and scapegoating is what this power group – the sociopaths – are all about.

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        • You are more likely to find an Asperger person in any type of intellectual or technical work than anything else. Computers have become the number one “special interest” for this group, superseding railways and ham radio that used to be very Asperger oriented hobbies. Computers is really a God sent for this group, aiding their communication deficiencies greatly in many cases.

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      • @ musings – The newest approach to ‘gun control’ buy our government is to work the ‘prohibited person’ angle. By law this means you can be prohibited from owning a gun if you have ever ‘been adjudicated insane’ by a court. But the ‘working’ of it is that if you go to a doctor for any kind of psych meds for (insert PTSD, or depression, or ADD, or ADHD, et al) then the state will come and confiscate your guns without warrants or compensation. This is already happening in CA, NY, NJ and maybe other places, to veterans and legal gun owners who have never committed an offense of any kind. Of course, every kid who ever got Ritalin, or Risperdal, or any other behavior mod drug that is commonly given to kids today would be ‘a prohibited person’ under this scenario. So this ‘drug stuff’ goes hand in hand with the gun control agenda of disarming everyone so that we are all walking victims.

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      • dave – it remains to be seen how far the legislation will go and to whose discretion it will be left. There are places in the US where you would not want to be known as a sitting duck with no gun – ranches and farms in remote areas for instance. Also hunting was deliberately not made a sport purely for the landed. I find it interesting that countries like ours which had a revolution – France for instance – pride themselves on having shooting in the country, and that it is a sport shared by rich and poor, generally for food (ducks and such). I would have thought that there would be opposition to this kind of take-over – and I am sure there is. The push-polls heat up after these events – real or fake – and then what do they accomplish? It’s a kind of rhetorical triumph.

        Having said this, I lived in a house surrounded by ranches as a small child, and there was one bad accident where a father shot a son deer-hunting (he died) and where a man who was having financial problems shot himself. The next community I lived in (suburbia) had a man who did trick shooting for the movies and Knotts Berry Farm, and he shot himself while cleaning a pistol (but it was probably a suicide). In Massachusetts, during the most stringent gun control, a man shot his brother-in-law across the street during a dispute about money (he died). So, like Jessica Fletcher or Poirot or Father Brown, I have a long string of coincidences where I was nearby when it happened. Maybe it’s just me, but I never felt scared by what happened or wanted to take away everyone’s guns. I wonder why? Maybe it is because it seems to be a part of American identity. I think it is because my father was a combat veteran and he was a responsible gun owner who somehow did not give in to despair and kill himself or others. I wonder how the families of those other men feel and if they somehow think gun control will save others.

        I think there’s an inherent threat in anti-depressive drugs – for example, the producer Tony Scott who jumped off a bridge was said to have both Ambien and an anti-depressant in his blood. He acted without the slightest hesitation or inhibition apparent to those who witnessed this. I don’t think antidepressants was a factor in any of the incidents I mentioned, but obviously there are many ways to go if you are bent on self-destruction, and guns are the least of the problem.

        As we know, Prohibition did the opposite of what it tried to do, although sensible liquor regulation came about afterwards. Perhaps there is such a thing as sensible firearms legislation and taking an absolute position is wrong. But if every single shooting is treated as a call to disarm – then the misguided Carry Nation types may have their way and we’ll live to rue it.

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      • musings, your comparison of alcohol prohibition to gun control, while possibly apt, is far from satisfying.

        For one thing, outside of the Moslem world (and not even all of it), the United States is the only place I can think of to ever have banned alcohol as a moral crusade. But lots and lots of countries, over thousands of years, have banned the right of the common man to defend himself. Now, I’m no expert about how the little guy thousands of years ago in Assyria or Egypt or wherever was convinced it was in his own best interests to allow the state to disarm him, but I am pretty conversant in the propaganda in the West over recent centuries. Whether it was Jews in Germany or Indians in America or Englishmen today, the purpose is always the same: to eliminate personal freedom for the common man; mostly, the long term goal has been to exterminate the targeted race, but in the case of America (and England) I think it’s more a matter of destroying the cultural history of the targeted people, so that it can be replaced with totalitarian leftism of the one world government variety. 1984-style.

        What’s interesting about the comparison, though, is the vast growth (and perversion) of the gun culture that prohibition created. Life became very cheap, and guns were used to get the job done–just like recreational drug prohibition in our own time. Happiness, to the guy making his living in a banned trade, is a warm gun.

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  25. James,
    If this event did not happen as it has been portrayed in the media, what are the reasons for the discrepancies in the number of suspects? If there were two, and the narrative intends to portray only one, and assuming these events are carefully managed by experienced professionals, are the initial eye witnesses not taken into consideration as part of the packaged event? In other words, are the two suspects turning to one part of the show, or are they evidence of a certain amount of malleability before the official narrative is fixed?

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    • I would think that there are two suspects for practical reasons (someone had to drive and someone had to shoot). The two roles required different skills. Elliot Rodger’s skill was to appear like a loveless sociopathic freak, and the other person’s skill was to shoot. I think they are confident that they can silence and discredit the witnesses who saw more than one shooter. (At Columbine, when such witnesses got too persistent they were simply killed – at least fifty of them over the years).

      Another thing about Elliot is that he seems to have brought a tripod or mount and a microphone with him wherever he went. It’s kind of tricky to get the framing right through a windshield even with a tripod, and you would never get the audio through a windshield without a microphone. Plus there were other videos he did that you would need a sturdy tripod for, like a full-body shot on a windy mountain. I have some video experience, and the only way you could get clear sound in those situations is with a wireless mic.

      If someone is really depressed then wouldn’t they just shoot a video in their room, pointing the camera at themselves as it rests on the dresser? Would they really invest in all of this expensive video equipment and lug it around to all of these scenic locations as if they are shooting an advertisement for luxury cars and luxury campuses? And why does he always have a perfect key light on him? Why did his murderous rants have to look so aesthetic? Or was someone else shooting the videos? If so, why hasn’t that person come forward? My feeling is that it was shot by a professional Hollywood cameraman, one of his dad’s contacts. There might be someone who saw one of these videos being made, who could come forward and say what they saw (unless the filming area was blocked off as it is for regular Hollywood exterior shoots, which is likely).

      My feeling is that Elliot was mind-controlled to make those videos, or else made them knowing they were part of a script, and that he did not know he would be sacrificed during the operation. EIlliot may have been sacrificed because he would not play along with a dark agenda (my feeling about Adam and Nancy Lanza).

      The other thing I have a hard time imagining is Elliot killing three people in his apartment with a knife. Did the other two just watch the first one get killed, and wait their turn? I can’t really visualize him overpowering all three of them, unless they were drugged. Of course I’m sure there will never be autopsies performed to see exactly how they were killed, if they were indeed were killed or existed at all.

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  26. Longer police audio clip here…

    The shorter clip above starts at 5:58 in this one.
    Before that at 4:24 you can hear “got both subjects in custody, 6500 block’

    @ 10:03 one in custody might have been a victim got hit by a (?)
    @ 11:20 shooter in custody…been shot as well
    @ 15:30 to the best we can tell, all suspects in custody
    @ 16:04 all suspects are in custody

    Link found at this video…

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  27. At the “crime scene” I.V. Deli I noticed 2 things.

    1- the Deli staff are photographed cleaning up the large amount of ‘blood’ on the floor. In a real crime wouldn’t blood be considered hazardous and cleaned by crime scene clean-up professionals?

    2 CNN reports obtaining an EXCLUSIVE CCTV video of the crime in progress directly from the Deli OWNERS. Wouldn’t the POLICE have taken the video evidence immediately as part of routine procedure and then the POLICE release the video to the media?

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  28. Eye witnesses are not 100% accurate sources of information. People think they saw a lot of things that are not true. I would like more information from these eye witnesses, before I can believe them. One thing that speaks in their favor is that driving and shooting is very difficult.

    If the police had one in custody, there has the be records of it?

    And, what are the chances that three rich kids go on killing sprees within just 3 years!? Is it that unhealthy to be rich?

    I would posit that “rich kids” (real or imagined) are perfect for psy ops, since they come from small private communities where information can be contained more easily.

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  29. Wanted: Journalist needed for a major mainstream newspaper located in a large metropolitan area. The successful candidate must not ask questions about what he/she is reporting, he must not be able to discern fiction from reality, lack of spelling a bonus. Accuracy is not needed in this position nor is truthfulness, just a willingness to sign your name to a storyline made up by federal and state propagandists. Candidate must make himself unavailable to those who may question what they are reading as a result of articles which are published. Integrity is not demanded just the ability to write with a bull shit flair.

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  30. one more clue to the long list
    neocon Peter King of NY is now rushing
    a bill through Congress to disarm public

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  31. Given that I was a less than average at statistics, is it possible for the press to be wrong with the initial report of events as much as they are? I mean given the speed of information these days, is it really possible to be this bad at your job. I know if I did my job this bad on a daily basis I would be homeless.
    And is the Sheriff a licensed psychologist? Can he label people “mentally disturbed” dead or not? Is premeditation usually a snap judgment given by a law enforcement professional? Is this alleged shooter really that good a picking off victims from a moving vehicle with a handgun? I wonder if it was a stick shift?

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    • This story is now a kind of chew-toy for reporters. They are going to play with it for hours.

      I have to stay I have avoided it. There are other things to pay attention too, though I have a lot of sympathy for people living in the mall and retirement village that is Santa Barbara, a probably once interesting place that has become a snooze-fest – until now. It’s an hour and a half north of LA, has a UC campus at Goleta, and also apparently another one of the those city colleges (like Santa Monica) where incidents happen – nearby anyway.

      But against my better judgment I listened to a clip that the local public radio station played (affiliated with Boston University, which had its role in the BMB). The clip was of the alleged killer talking about how the “girls” didn’t like him, in the most creepy voice this side of “Psycho”. The host and his guest were speaking about how he belonged to these online forums where they expressed misogyny — like the Little Rascals’ He-Man Woman-Hater Club, I guess. — But like my sister, I did not detect a real suffering desperado, but an actor playing a part. She said he thought it sounded like he was reading a script (my post previously). My impression was simply that he was in his role, and it wasn’t real, not motivated by genuine frustration. I could even see someone comparing him to the Columbine guys. He does seem an evil little privileged brat, but not someone who couldn’t easily pick up chicks the old-fashioned way – with cash. This is a totally bogus story, and his being led astray by wicked misogynists – come on! The radio people kept talking about how this guy felt “entitled” to have sex and be more than just a friend. What friend? I simply could not imagine a character like that suffering under the “best friend” role. Bad scripting, really bad. Low motivation.

      I do think it might segue easily into a military scenario – those guys really are restricted. But this kid wasn’t.

      I found it odd that the one taboo thing in this radio program was to question the reality of the story.

      That is the biggest taboo, because it might involve real reporting, and we cannot have that, can we?

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