Sandy Hook, Hippie Communes, and US Homeland Security

GaskinBy Prof. Jason Kissner

What follows either signifies next to nothing or something rather unsettling. On June 3, 2014 someone writing by the name of “Duke Reichert” contributed an article to the MemoryHole blog entitled “Gut Feeling: Something is Wrong with Newtown.”

[Former San Francisco State University professor and spiritual guru Stephen Gaskin preaches to followers at his “Sandy Hook Church of Christ” circa 1972 in Summertown, Tennessee. “It’s easier to be God than to see God,” Gaskin proclaimed. Image Credit:]

In that piece, Reichert indicates, among many other things, that two personages with ties to Sandy Hook—Jim Champion, brother of Nancy Lanza, and a Dr. Alexander Isgot—each have histories that place them in the very curious locale of Summertown, Tennessee.

Here, from the above-linked article, is Reichert:

…searches on Alexander Isgut and Police Officer James Champion- Nancy’s brother- return ANOTHER common location. It seems that both Dr. Isgut and Nancy’s brother (Champion) have past addresses in Summertown, Tennessee. Summertown Tennessee? I had never heard of it. And, if you haven’t that’s probably OK since most Tennesseans haven’t either.

Summertown, TN is what is known as “an intentional community”- basically, a commune. To reside there, you must be brought in by a member of the group, and the group votes and decides if you can stay. The community does its own farming and in co-op style they attempt to barter and trade goods and services when they can to keep to themselves as much as possible.

A couple decades ago at the height of free love and flower children, Summertown TN had over 2000 people – “members”. Today, it is barely thriving at 800 with the last of the members hanging on to the good old days. What on earth were Jim Champion and Dr. Isgut doing there? What are their ties to a commune down south, and how do these threads all Connecticut?

While the present article offers no answers (directly, anyway) as to why the two personages mentioned by Reichert were at Summertown, it does bring to light some facts about Summertown that some might consider most curious indeed.

Summertown may well have been and may still be a commune, but it also appears to have been tinged with intelligence-related activities (to be discussed momentarily) and came complete with a charismatic personality (a former professor from San Francisco State University by the name of Stephen Gaskin) of the sort frequently associated with cults (click here to see a picture of Gaskin, in an evidently inspired moment, regaling a Summertown/Sandy Hook Church of Christ flock).

You read that correctly: “Sandy Hook Church of Christ.” You will note the caption at the bottom of the picture with considerable interest:

Stephen Gaskin, standing, explains his religious beliefs to gathering of his followers and some of the congregation of Sandy Hook Church of Christ at a joint meeting in Summertown, Tenn., in 1972. (AP)

You also read that correctly: the Sandy Hook Church of Christ, in Summertown, Tennessee of all places!

FarmBusRegarding the items on the late Gaskin’s Summertown (and Sandy Hook Church of Christ ?) agenda in the 1970s and quite probably thereafter, at least “officially”, we have:
No guns. No liquor. No synthetic psychedelics. Don’t work at something you hate but work at something. All for one, one for all, love thy neighbor, and meditate frequently. At Sunday gatherings, Gaskin sermonized about the well-lived life, presided over burials and performed marriages. Unions of two or three couples were not unheard of, and Gaskin was for a time involved in a marriage of six.

[The bus that took Gaskin and his followers from San Francisco’s Haight-Asbury to Summertown in 1971. Image Credit:]

Whatever the nature of the Sandy Hook Church of Christ’s activities really was in the 1970s and whatever its ties to Gaskin’s group, one very well known global elitist took, for whatever reason, a rather pronounced interest in Gaskin’s group. The elitist’s name? None other than Vice President Al Gore, who at the time was a reporter for the Tennessean (click here, if you can stomach it, for confirmation, and here for Gore’s 1972 article on Gaskin.)

Not to pile oddity upon oddity, but for some reason after some 42 years the Tennessean has just seen fit, on July 8, 2014 to be precise, to dredge the Gore article out of the archives. In any event, Gore’s piece begins:

SUMMERTOWN, Tenn. A barn decorated with oriental rugs and bleachers made of straw has become the unlikely meeting ground between members of Stephen Gaskin’s commune and a Church of Christ congregation.

Every Sunday afternoon and every Monday night for the past four weeks, the minister of Sandy Hook Church of Christ has come with 30 to 40 members of his congregation and several other ministers to share “the word of God” with Gaskin and the estimated 450 members of his commune who live on a farm near here.

IT BEGAN as a brave attempt by the churchmen to …(unreadable line). Overshadowing all the disagreements, the real importance of the debates is that representatives of two groups of people who are mortal enemies in many parts of America are learning to listen quietly to each other.

…(bad line) “save” the souls of those who came here seven months ago from San Francisco to start a new life here in Lewis County. But it has developed into a series of electric debates. Each side presents its beliefs and then both sides hash out their disagreements. Unlike most communities, the Gaskin group is committed to leading a religious life. His followers look to him for spiritual guidance and he is more than willing to give it to anyone who asks. Gaskin describes his group as a …monastery.

TO THE SURPRISE of both sides, they found they share a lot of common ground in the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, the Golden Rule, the value of working hard and trying always to tell the truth – and most important, a deep faith in God.

“I think it’s been profitable for all of us”, said Bobby Williams, minister of Sandy Hook Church of Christ. “Our first impulse was to associate them with Charles Manson and their first impulse was to associate us with their unfavorable religious background.”

There have been some surprises on the other side, too. Gaskin, the “Spiritual Leader” of the commune which is known simply as “The Farm” said of all the persons he has debated in San Francisco and around the country, “These Church of Christ folks are some of the toughest, a lot tougher than the Hare Krishna people”.

In any event, Gaskin shepherded the “Farm”—the commune near Summertown—for 43 years. During that time span, Gaskin seems to have “evolved” considerably. For example, we have this rather startling language from the LA Times article:

Businesses on The Farm include a publishing company and a firm that makes radiation detectors used by law enforcement agencies worldwide.

“Homeland Security’s been good to us,” Gaskin told the Times in 2004. “We’re high-tech hippies now.”

Did the stints of Champion and Isgut at Summertown coincide with DHS’s interactions with the commune? Quite possibly; if so, I’m sure it’s nothing more than a coincidence. As to the Sandy Hook Church of Christ designation and that institution’s Summertown connections to Gaskin and perhaps Champion, Isgut, DHS, and the manufacture of law enforcement technology, I’m sure we have nothing other than more coincidences, since there are probably tens of millions of Sandy Hook Churches of Christ across the country—and Al Gore has written about each and every one of them.

Jason Kissner is Associate Professor of Criminology at Fresno State University.

177 thoughts on “Sandy Hook, Hippie Communes, and US Homeland Security”

  1. Really good article.

    It’s much later (and darker) than people think, although some (particularly on sites such as this) are getting there…

    Ned Lud

      1. Your welcome. Imagine the horror of all those wealthy parents when they realized their children’s endowments went to support a commune that failed to feed or clothe them or their children properly!

    1. Thanks for linking that pedantic skirt, one of the most revealing comments was that the Farm was not able to correct its mistakes, things kept going a certain way due to the leader being the kind of guy you couldn’t be honest with, even about his shitty drumming. The Farm could have been programmed to fail. Maybe he was a decent guy, maybe he was an unwitting tool, maybe just another egomaniac.

      I think there are too many coincidences about this place not to be a bit suspicious. The Sandy Hook story is getting more and more unwieldy at any rate.

      The Farm seems like a microcosm of the greater community that is also tripped up by a form of mind control.

    2. This communistic idealism was tried many times throughout the history of white people in America. The result was always the same. American youth, marinated in the prosperity of Western Civilization, spontaneously cook up the idea that everything that came before they were birthed is arbitrary–and wrong. This is periodic, and predictable. It is the noble savage theory, kind of inverted: these privileged white youth think that they have it in themselves to BECOME the noble savage, by instinct and force of will, whereupon they can effortlessly develop the perfect society. They know this in their very souls. They always fail, utterly, because they do not in fact, by instinct, know better than those who came before them. They learn this by hard experience, and slink away, saddened, having wasted precious years of their vital youth.

      It is endlessly a mystery to me why such movements are idealized, given the endless repeat of the same magnificent failure in our history. Even this article Kathy links to is respectful, giving as it does no historical context. It is as if it happened in a vacuum. All one need do is look up New Harmony, in Indiana, however, and follow links in any article about it, to see how conventional these “unconventional” folk were. There are lots of similar experiments, all through our dubious history, all ending up just the same–or worse. The idealists in the end always quietly slip out of the picture, their dreams deflated, the grand plan abandoned. Making up a perfect world, out of their hopelessly meager knowledge of reality, fails, every time.

      We might be in a new phase of this phenomenon just now, however. The premise of this article is compelling in that it wonders if the military/intelligence matrix has been using these utopians.

      Even more compelling is Sofia’s bringing up the work of Dave McGowan about Laurel Canyon in this regard. (If you click on her link, she shows her copy of the book, newly published, full of slips of paper to hold important spots. I love Sofia, and understand her enthusiasm in this regard–because the book really IS that good, but Dave included an INDEX, so we don’t have to do that. And I have, as God is my witness, done that to books many, many times–even books with indexes, so I understand. Now, it is not good form to stay within the parentheses this long, so I’m being kind of a Charlie Kaufman character here, and within that crazy world, I’d like to say that all the Web Site articles were full of absolutely fantastic pictures, which the book is utterly devoid of–and since the book has been in print, you can’t revisit those Web pages anymore! ARGGGG! I know, I know, the book would be a gazillion dollars if it had all those great pictures. Bummer. I haven’t had the chance to listen to Sofia’s conversation with him yet–I hope she asked him about the sadness of giving up the pictures to make the book.)

      Anyway, that aside, Dave McGowan’s work unveils a military intelligence guiding hand throughout the history of the rock-music era. The Hippy thing was almost certainly a creation of the deep state.

      So how far down does the rabbit hole go?

      1. One can find lots of wonderful photos on Dave McGowan’s Facebook page (open to the public)
        I think this is where he transferred them, Patrick. The essays about Laurel Canyon are no longer on his website, but they were there for years. You now have to buy the book to immerse yourself in the full story. Even so, McGowan is very reporter-like (although he does include plenty of his own humor) and does not connect the dots per se. The “trained” reader, however, will get a ton of satisfaction out of the research he has done.

      2. Thanks for mentioning “New Harmony”. If memory serves, and I once researched this for a story, the original inhabitants who sold it to Robert Owen in 1825 were a religious-based community which seemed to have done well during their tenure. They at least cashed in on it, while the Owen colony failed. Frances Wright herself decided to ameliorate the lives of blacks after leaving the colony. She bought slaves in order to train them to be free in five years (another five-year-plan before the Soviets), but by the time she finished with her experiment, she was watching an overseer beat them and it ended in failure. It seems however that the goals of New Harmonie were not so much Dionysian as an attempt at rational living, Apollonian if you will.

  2. I suspect there are a lot of these “intention communities” in America, and these have been created and kept going for decades. Sandy Hook itself might be such a thing. Not unrelated to the above piece is the Laurel Canyon story — a birthing hub for certain activities and a new music movement that would sweep the country. Please hear the Dave McGowan interview on to learn more.

    1. Dave was the first public figure to call the events of September 11th, 2001 for what they were – a huge PSY-OP.

      When I witnessed the building collapses, I knew that they were NOT due to impacts from commercial airliners. WTC 7 clinched it. I would like to see a REAL investigation performed, and those responsible charged with mass murder and like charges.

      When crime pays, crime repeats.

  3. I think the material in this article is “next to nothing”, not “something rather unsettling.”
    The Sandy Hook Church of Christ was not part of Summertown. If you google map SHCOC you will see that it is located maybe 5-10 miles away, in a small nondescript building along a country highway.
    If you read the article you will see that Gaskin invited the members of SHCOC to the Farm for “Bible talk” meetings for several successive weeks. The newspaper article makes it sound like SHCOC was trying to convert The Farm and not the other way round. The LA Times Gaskin obit has a photo which gives the misleading impression that SHCOC were long-hairs sitting on the floor of the barn, while the Tennessee article states that the SHCOC members sat as a group at the back, and their preachers sat on chairs, not in the hay on the floor. So the SHCOC members were not even in the photo.

    Sandy Hook Connecticut was founded in 1711, and SHCOC predated Summertown, So the name connection appears to be just coincidental. There are other places in Summertown and Mt. Pleasant Tennessee with the name Sandy Hook.
    It is a little strange that Al Gore wrote this newspaper article, but on the other hand I imagine the influx of a hippie caravan moving to sleep backwoods Tennessee was a big deal at the time. The newspaper probably wanted to allay concerns and printed this “feel good” piece about hippies and Bible folks cooperating.

    There’s a fair amount of material on the Farm and Summertown and Stephen Gaskin, which readers of this blog should look at before jumping to conclusions about hippie cults and mind-control.

    Apart from the couple years in the early 70s when the population boomed into the thousands with stragglers (among whom may have been Champion and Isgut of Sandy Hook), The Farm was fairly conservative (by hippie standards), non-cultish, and non-political. Basically it was a large communal/cooperative organic farm. Their only real sin was marijuana, and they gave that up after Gaskin got busted for growing. The FBI surveilled them for years (because Hoover thought they might be communists) but gave up after they found nothing. Gaskin cooperated with the FBI and local cops, but mostly, it appears, to get rid of unwanted druggies and criminals taking refuge on The Farm. Gaskin himself was not a cult-leader, but a back-to-the-earth type who spouted a shallow idealistic feel-good new-age philosophy. This country would be a much better place if there were more people like Gaskin, instead of the greedy paranoid power-hungry sociopaths who rule us.

    1. “SV Bob” contrarian positions are welcome here. However, your frequent contributions in this regard, combined with the fact that you have used at least six separate IP addresses over the past few months, makes this moderator somewhat suspicious.

      1. In and of itself there’s nothing suspicious about six IP addresses. Just means he’s not always writing from the same place, or that his provider doesn’t give him a fixed address.

      2. What are you trying to say? Is it bad to login and comment from different places or devices connecting to different isp’s? I’m not sure I understand where your going. Also, SV bob has hit the nail on the head several times before, leaving a level-headed, skeptics view with factual information (I usually check). I didn’t really like this article or his post above, which sounds like he may have recently googled Gaskin – coming off as if he has known this forever. Deceptive? Idk. Egotistical? Likely.
        James, could you elaborate on any suspicions you have of SV bob?

      3. How good it is, not to have SV Bob’s comment and counter-comments ‘air-brushed’ out of existence by an editor-owner or an editor-owner-management team.

        Though modern life has become very dark (the very opposite of what control freaks contend, ask Robin Williams), there is a little light being offered on sites such as this.

        Congratulations, all.


        1. before we all start mourning the loss of robin williams I suggest you read the expose on john lennon by miles mathis.

          Thanks dublinsmick, following your link I stumbled across mathis’s work for the first time and it is brilliant.

          I read the expose on lennon’s faked death at the same time I watched “let him be” which actually stars john lennon and he released four new songs in the film. It was truly mindblowing for me. I had just been thinking that it sure seems like a nice time to retire as the country falls into full blown facism, and what a way to ensure your last four films pay you dearly than to fake your death when I found the john lennon info. if john lennon did it I am sure that it is very, very possible that robin williams is also faking his death at a critical moment.

          if you have a few hours to spend I highly recommend that you read the article and watch the film while it can still be found on the web.

      4. No, I am not a troll or a basher with ulterior motives. I have only posted here as SV Bob, and not anyone else. I don’t know why my IP would change, though it may be due to a computer virus/malware.
        Generally I only post here when the author has “lost the plot” and makes assertions that run against the facts or argues for something improbable and silly.
        I sharply criticized Andrew McGregor for his wild speculations about the first Malaysian Airline, and as events have shown, I was right and he was wrong.
        I think I was actually being generous here towards Prof. Kissner. In additions to the criticisms made above, I would add that he failed to notice a passage in the 2007 article on The Farm in Vanity Fair that mentions that The Farm had been fooling around with hand-held electronics for a long time, having put out a book on CB radios in the late 70s or early 80s. It would be perfectly natural for The Farm to go into hand-held radioactivity detectors, and doing so does not imply a close relationship with DHS. Also, Kissner suggests that perhaps Isgut was at The Farm in the early 2000s. No, he was not. He was working in Connecticut hospitals since around 1980.
        So the only thing we are left with, the only evidence to support a Sandy Hook connection, from the whole article is Jim Champion’s unknown stay in Summertown, probably in the 1970’s. That’s a very meager harvest.
        Trying to draw some connection between hippie “cults” and Sandy Hook really detracts from what should be the center of attention in Sandy Hook research. The Sandy Hook Event was a novel experiment in Skinnerian behaviorism and population “mind control” through hoax, tricks and media manipulation. It was a top-down operation concocted and planned by DHS or the FBI (as the 11000 page script given to Halbig attests), not a plot that originated from indoctrination received in a hippie colony long, long ago.
        The only connection I see between 60s-style liberalism and SH is that the event advanced an item in the liberal agenda (gun control) by means typically associated with right-wing fascist governments. And even that connection is open to doubt, since Hitler also implemented a gun-confiscation plan in Germany the 1930’s.

        1. I don’t think sandy hook was novel at all. you ought to read the link in dublinsmick’s article and you will see that they have been pulling sandy hook’s all along. you will also see how these communities may be created and used by intelligence agencies. the overlap between events is incredible.

      5. SV Bob the Weimar Republic passed strict gun control laws; I don’t think Hitler did until 1938 or 1937, and those weren’t aimed at the general public I don’t think.

      6. “SV Bob,” presumably there are actors/performers in these events that are not, strictly speaking, agents of the Federal Government. It’s interesting to me to examine how some of these people may have become connected through the years, and how they might have developed a world view congruent with faking the deaths of dozens of children in order to further some cause. I guess it’s possible that the participants are simply amoral grifters in search of a buck, but maybe not.

      7. @fishandroaches:

        I don’t normally spend long stretches at the computer, as I don’t like them,but I looked at the manson/tate pdf and it was thoroughly convincing to me.

        Totally remarkable that the story has persisted in its invented form. I was a child then, and until now, never thought to question it–the Manson character is such powerful folklore.

        Very, very well done by this Mathis fellow.


        1. YES! thanks for checking that story out. I have been waiting for a response from somebody about it. I have often wondered and commented probably five times, “how long has this been going on?” now I know. the whole gosh dang time.

      8. F and R, I read through the entire Manson PDF as well. I must admit that I saw that story in an entirely different light, and it left me wanting to research further. It caused me to think of Manson much like the Ben Kingsley character in Iron Man 3. I won’t spoil the movie for anyone who hasn’t seen it, but I think anyone who has seen it will get the reference. I will only say that Hollywood seems to be plainly telling us what’s going on, if anyone is willing to listen.

  4. I find the connection between key Newtown event players and this Tennessee community compelling. I suspect, however, that the connection to Sandy Hook COC is merely coincidental.

  5. Looks like the Manson gang had some crisis actors also.

    Jay Sebring: “You will best benefit yourself by keeping an open mind and forgetting most of what you have learned in the past.” Jay Sebring

    Shakespeare. “The world is but a stage and we are the players.”

    And Lincoln’s Pinkerton security gang.

    1. The article that’s linked to on that page about Manson is startling. I’ve only read about a half but the coincidences are hard to square as purely random. I’ve always had a problem processing the Manson ‘family’ murders. For one, the followers were somehow made to do things that just seem too beyond the pale. For another, Manson is said to have some form of schizophrenia but even low level schizophrenia would almost certainly prevent the success at manipulating that Manson allegedly achieved. Perhaps his ‘mental illness’ was the early beginning of a campaign we’re only now experiencing the ultimate fruition of. Since I’m not *that* old I have no idea if this meme on Manson originated back at his trial or if it’s a more recently-propagated one.

      Very interesting stuff here.

      1. Sue that was my first thought also when reading the Manson piece a friend sent me. There is too much here for coincidence. It does seem to fall into the pattern. I was alive back in those days and the thought never occurred to me something like this could be a planned event.

        If you read the Lincoln PDF, I am afraid it a also falls into the pattern.

        A vote of thanks is in order from all to professor Tracey. A stance such as his is not easy to take these days. His reasons should be obvious to all, he wants a better world you and also for his children to live in.

      2. Manson’s interactions with the criminal justice system are also hard to square, as is the bizarre release back into the Spahn Ranch owner’s custody of a 15 year old female minor. Some of it isn’t just a highly improbable connection or intersection; certain decisions made by the justice system can’t be figured at all for ‘normal’ and seem totally contrived.

        Sharon Tate’s father having been admiral on the boat which radio’d in the Gulf of Tonkin false flag is pretty compelling as just one of the connections…funny how I never heard who or what her father was. Seems like the press tried to paint her background as very humble and non-descript when in fact she was practically military nobility.

        Polanski’s background is less explored in the article; I’ve only heard that both his parents were allegedly killed during WWII. Who knows if that’s even true. The LA criminal justice system wasn’t so indulgent of him, at least allegedly, when he raped that 13 year old girl, but I suspect the CIA or whoever couldn’t push the LAPD off the case so easily.

        The oddest micro-‘myth,’ as it may have been, was about Lynette Fromme and her nickname as ‘Squeaky;’ they claimed she was given that name for having sex with the 80 yr old landlord for free rent, and that she made squeaking noises during the transaction. That’s just another over the top element of what was a completely over the top drama, which never added up for me even as I assumed it happened.

        Uncovering this likely hoax has spooked me the most, because it was the least expected. Manson is an american icon whose legend has gone unquestioned.

        1. “Sharon Tate’s father having been admiral on the boat which radio’d in the Gulf of Tonkin false flag is pretty compelling as just one of the connections…funny how I never heard who or what her father was. Seems like the press tried to paint her background as very humble and non-descript when in fact she was practically military nobility.”

          that was jim morrison’s father. sharon tate’s father was a colonel in army intelligence.

      3. ETA And some are claiming Bugliosi (the prosecutor in the Manson case) was working for the mafia. I have no idea about that but don’t see obvious signs in his Wikipedia page, although his ridiculous defense of the Warren Report’s version of JFK’s assassination clearly signals that he’s shady:

        He maligns the JFK doubters as hijackers and ‘conspiracy theorists;’ I wonder what he’d say of us.

      4. Yeah, Tate was the colonel…here’s a blog or site that explores some of the military background of the 60’s hippie royalty

        It doesn’t seem too precise, but does say that Ken Kesey was a subject for the CIA’s experimentation with LSD (and details some other ghastly involuntary experimentation with the drug) before he started the Merry Prankster tour. I mention this because Kesey had a lead role in fomenting what came to be one of the social movements behind the push for LBJ’s civil rights bill. Kesey graduated from headlining the beatnik scene to mentoring the next generation’s hippies.

        Oddly enough, I’ve wondered if he( or Timothy Leary or Allen Ginsberg) somehow worked for the government during that period, as my sense is LBJ’s various civil rights acts weren’t received that well by the general populace and needed help to get them passed. LBJ’s vision was more radical than JFK’s and he introduced them earlier than JFK had planned to lobby for his. LBJ was a hard core zionist and probably knew the Mossad killed JFK; his radical anti-white middle class ‘reforms’ were part of the zionist agenda to foment an eventual race war.

        I can’t find any speculation that Kesey was ever ‘in’ on the CIA machinations behind the drug culture that evolved in the 60’s, which is the subject of this better researched blog:

        Perhaps the counter culture gurus were just mostly unwitting actors in the dramas that unfolded during that era. Recall that the government brought Susan Lindauer, the peace activist, in at certain points and discarded her pretty unceremoniously when she became a ‘problem.’ I’m surprised Manson hasn’t officially died if he really was an ‘asset,’ although his ‘schizophrenia’ might serve an ongoing role in the continuing plot development.

      5. Oh, and the second link on my above post awaiting moderation has very interesting articles on whether the CIA killed Lennon, and on how the CIA backed the ‘modern art’ movement. Gloria Steinem worked for the CIA and her Ms. Magazine was funded by it, in case people didn’t know. Some of these social ‘reform’ movements were clearly shepherded by the CIA which is why I wondered about Kesey and the druggie hippie luminaries’ possible collusion with the agency.

        I’m sure some may have heard of the Frankfurt School’s ‘plot’ to destabilize american society; for those who deem that ‘anti-semitic’ paranoia, I can only respond that there sure is a lot of evidence to support the theory. The counterculture of the 60’s may have been one phase in the process.

        1. I don’t know if you missed my links or if that was the best you guys could come up with but I posted links to an 83 page expose on how the sharon tate/manson murders were as fake as sandy hook and a 48 page essay on john lennon’s murder being fake, plus a relatively new movie with john lennon in it releasing four new songs and you post links to a messageboard where they talk about intricacies of the “script” as if it was real, and very poorly at that. and you add the comment about the cia killing john lennon? if you are going to write about the subjects others post at least follow the links and comment on that, otherwise it appears you are trying to muddy the waters by posting weak links on the same subject. it seems like some people don’t want us to know how long this has been going on.

          I really, really want people to see these articles. I have put off going to work for a day and a half because I am so enamored by these articles. they both tie in to this article by kissner as well.

      6. One of the best, and earliest, analysis of the Manson story was done by the incomparable researcher Mae Brussel, who became very suspicious that it was a psy-op soon after the event. Listen to Mae’s view on her radio broadcast at She didn’t always get it right, but Mae was a giant in the field of debunking and connecting dots.

      7. I wasn’t trying to ‘muddy the waters,’ fish. I mentioned Lennon because the blogger who explores some of the larger theme of CIA involvement behind modern art and the counter culture, which is what drew me to the site, touches on it.

      8. Joel – thank you for mentioning Mae Brussell. I highly recommend her radio archives.

        There was another trend setter back in the day – Dr. Peter David Beter. His archives are also available and you would think you’re hearing about current day corruption, except the names are from a few short decades ago. He may have been over the top – or perhaps not.

    2. This is fascinating and enlightening. Could it be that a large portion of the population realized they needed to get sober and start paying attention?

      I was a child during helter skelter and pretty much viewed it as another scary movie I never wanted to see.

      Have noted the recent death of a superstar had almost 24/7 coverage, anytime that happens, the red flag go up.

      The Academy of the Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences released the famous “Genie, you’re free!” shortly after and was reprimanded by the Association of Suicide Prevention. They said they quickly deleted that tweet that was seen by millions, but I continue to see it in my small circle of social media friends.

      Tptb are in charge of all the large cities, probably some states, the open border, et al, and are willing to pay you handsomely, especially if you can translate the 20 versions of the Mayan language for the poor children in our common core edumucation centers.

  6. I live in’s a town not a commune. The article is talking about “The Farm” which is located near Summertown.

  7. Have heard on many occasions of the heavy presence of homeland security in TN.

    Could there be a power struggle between the feds with unlimited grant writing authority and the governors , who are trying to stay autonomous?

    Did a random search of homeland security & a state.

    These states have actual home pages for dhs & the particular state, which implies to me they are in a position of power – CT, NY, TN, MO & MA.

    These states have links within their own state home pages for obtaining grants – TX, SC, AZ, CA & FL.

    1. Couple of Tennessee tidbits…

      Oak Ridge, TN was created by the U.S. government as part of the Manhattan Project. Oak Ridge National Labs employ several thousand to this day.

      Tennessee governor Haslam’s family are billionaires who own the Pilot gas stations around the country. They were raided by the FBI and IRS about a year ago.

      Not sure that those tie together directly, but they do both highlight various aspects of the state’s Federal presence.

      1. My cyber buddy Walter, speaking of Oak Ridge, states he was raised in a secret town that did not exist. He was informed he was given the experimental plutonium injections and to fill out paperwork. Every time he does it gets lost and no one ever contacts him.

        Those who have never worked in a highly secured facility, have no clue how strict the secrecy is. We finally had to quit/retire from well paying jobs as we received ‘orders’ that we were on call 24/7, could not partake of a beer, could not travel more than 1 hour away, and must install a land line just in case cell phones did not work. See ya!

  8. Look into Dave McGowan’s work. Anything that comes into mainstream consciousness is related to the PTB.

  9. This material is linked to the work of Dave McGowan, whose new book, “Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon”, about Laurel Canyon intel ops in 1960s-70s, is well worth reading. A discussion fan group is on Facebook at The original, though less extensive, blog series which led to the book is mostly taken down now (for helping the book sales), but a copy site is here: . The site where Dave wrote his work originally (with very few pages from this particular series still up), is at

  10. All interesting thoughts. I suppose I’ll have to add a few of my own.

    It is unlikely that the Dr. Isgut/Champion connection is a “coincidence”. I lived through the whole hippy period but didn’t end up on “The Farm”.

    Just to clarify something, a lot of people cite Laurel Canyon and that “scene” as “where it all started”. That simply isn’t so. It largely started in San Francisco and was imitated elsewhere. Also, just because the people involved looked similar, it was impossible to lump them all together as having a common belief, other than that they didn’t want to accept the current “norm”.

    The Sandy Hook references also seem related. I realize that the name isn’t terribly uncommon, but it isn’t all that common either. I was also taken by the “Church of Satan” having an East Coast headquarters there. Why? I’m fairly sure they didn’t just throw a dart at a map.

    I’ve been in Tennessee quite a few times but I’m not familiar with the town. How the good doctor and Nancy’s brother would find a connection there is indeed strange. But, like I’ve mentioned before, the fact that Dear Leader has an SSN from a dead man that resided at Fairfield Hills is equally strange.

    One thing that I have noticed over the years is that there seem to be “centers” for odd activity. They are often not in areas where one might expect that. So, of course, the question of whether those are experiments, or just “recognition” is always hovering in the background.

    Some of these places come up again and again. This is the first reference I’ve found to “The Farm”, however. Colorado and Nebraska (and some others) seem to have hot spots that turn up repeatedly when looking at other aberrations.

    Some of these cult escapees claim multi-generational involvements in these places. I’m not drawing any conclusions, just pointing out anomalous behavior.

    In looking at SHES, at least to me, it seems very obvious that certain groups involved definitely have a history together. I don’t think they are all one big cohesive group. You have the Baha’i’s and the Satanists and the “Up With People” cult hovering around the periphery. Naturally, there are the political parasites doing what opportunists do.

    However, it IS organized. So they are each in their own way “doing their thing” but it is under the direction and control of someone. So, if the implication here is that the plot was hatched in Tennessee or something, I’m not so sure. Someone may have been aware of the place and thought it good fodder for some hijinks, however.

    If we had the ability to follow one of these player’s life over time it might be instructive. What we have instead are little snapshots in time. Virtually everyone’s life is a series of circumstances that lead them to where they find themselves. In unraveling this mystery understanding those connections would be helpful.

  11. What a bunch of hogwash. If you poke and pry and dig deep enough you can find connections between a LOT of people and things everywhere. The “Farm” still thrives, and it’s a GOOD thing. Whatever happened at Sandy Hook, this whole article is just grasping at decomposing straws…….

    1. “patsy” please enlighten us with some other connections between people and things everywhere. I would love to see how those “coincidences” stand up to what mr. kissner has proposed here.

      the idea of “safe communities” (intelligence created communities) seems to have struck a nerve with the trolls. I think these things are more common than previously thought.

      1. Fish, ha!. My idea is that cults are useful to them. Some may be started by them. Others are simply “used”. What they’re after is fodder.

        These things inevitably end up with a core of more or less productive people supporting hordes of crazy jackals that prowl the periphery looking for handouts.

        Those who are attracted to such arrangements are either “leaders” (read psychopaths), or people who want no responsibility. As long as they are cared for and can remain children forever, they’ll do virtually anything.

        So, if someone knowingly goes to a place like that what are they doing there? Are they going to “lead” and steal the products from the drones? Are they going to be drones? Or are they looking to be lead?

        If I’m looking for “talent” for my pageant, and I don’t want anyone encumbered by self-respect or responsibility, I would think I’d hit the mother lode.

        For the SHES production they brought the whole circus. What’s scary is what exactly do these people do when they don’t have a “purpose”? Do they walk the streets and mumble? Do they poison pigeons in the park?

        Why, I think they retreat to their “safe communities” and live out their twisted fantasies.

    2. Can’t wait to weigh in with Patsy! If you read the Wikipedia entry for Ferguson, you see a town of Newtown proportions (21,000 people officially), with an interesting history of favorite sons: air ace Jimmy Doolittle and also (and this might mean something): General Ralph Eberhart, commander of the North American Aerospace Command during 9/11. Is this just a bogey on the radar screen or is there something meaningful, like a place with useful loyal insiders who create things that give the powerful their talking points and launch new initiatives to take things in a very undemocratic direction through acts which rouse people to assent to power? Well, there it is, factual apparently but meaningful – who knows?

    3. Patsy, the “whole article is just grasping at decomposing straws….?”
      Its always a bit amusing when a new commenter posts here on MHB. Their disingenuine nature are pretty much exposed by others here IMMEDIATELY.

      The only thing decomposing is the pathetic attempts of those still clinging to the official Sandy Hook fairy tale.

      Whether or not the content of this article ultimately has any impact on the myth of Sandy Hook remains to be seen. At this point in time its really not all that significant. What is significant is, who are you, really, Patsy? Because your comments are so vague and worthless that you ought to respond to just thank me for responding to you.

      C’mon, is this really C.W. Wade, Chris Hernandez, or some other mind control numbskull? You fellas are TOO funny…..Patsy Buvoltz….ROFL!!

      1. There is only one Patsy Buvoltz in all of these united states. Unless C. W. Wade or Chris Hernandez stole her identity, she can be found by typing her name in the search engine. As Gomer Pyle used to say “Surprise, surprise, surprise!”

  12. Yes the farm must be thriving now, it must be much better now that less than 140 people living there as reported in 2013 do not have to deal with the ‘thousands’ previously stinking up the 3 square miles.

    Also read the leader stepped down as he realized his beliefs were no longer in line with the thinking of the cult, didn’t see what structure replaced the supreme leader.

    This timeline indicates very little activity in the last several decades and this notation is telling:

    •The Changeover ◦The Farm changes from being totally collective, where all things were held in common, to a cooperative. The land is held in common but monthly dues are levied for community expenses. The population decreases dramatically.

    Capitalism and self serving non-profit ‘charities’ may be thriving!

    1. Not to mention that “decomposing straw” could be handy when they run out of toilet paper.

      It sounds like they missed one of the “golden rules”. “Those who don’t work don’t eat”. That usually culls the herd somewhat.

  13. The militarized police assault against the people of Ferguson illustrates the intersection of US foreign policy with domestic policy. The police chief was reported to have been trained in crowd control by Israel and he is treating the American people in the same way that apartheid Israel treats the Palestinian people.

    This includes the suppression of the media. Two reporters were assaulted and imprisoned, a ‘no fly zone’ was declared to prevent news helicopters from entering, reporters were threatened not to take pictures, the crowd was threatened with machine guns on armored vehicles, shot with stun guns, rubber and wooden bullets, and tear gas. A message from the Palestinians was forwarded to inform the Ferguson people how to deal with the tear gas.

    This occurred while Israel was shelling Gaza, and US controlled Ukraine was shelling the Russian speaking people. Obama’s press person stated publically she had no sympathy for the shelled population, the Ukraine referring to them as Terrorists. The War on Terrorism will be directed against the American people as well as foreign Terrorists, first against African Americans, then against everyone else.

    This is inevitable when increasing economic inequality is the policy of American power. The inequality can only be maintained by increasing political brutality, and both can only be legitimated by increasing deceit, delusion, ideological repression, and irrationality.

    There is now a Terrorist list of about a million American names, and the militarized police will be used in addition to handle uprisings in Terrorist America. The war, including the truth war, is that of American power against the American people.

    1. You’d actually be somewhat accurate here, Mark, except you’re omitting how the riots started. There is plenty of video evidence that supports the cops’ contention that Michael Brown and his friend attacked them first. A surveillance camera caught them shoplifting and causing problems in the food mart. I’m not saying the cops couldn’t have handled the incident better (I wasn’t there obviously), but in this case the weight of the evidence is pro-cop. I agree with you about the police state and that most cops are sociopaths.

      Whites have been terrorized for decades in the US; it’s the black community that enabled the government-planned race war which will end any decent life for most american people. Why were they so easily manipulated by YKW, is the question no one can answer…

    2. This is another propaganda manufactured episode, clue? 24/7 coverage. Saw a news blurb on my social media – CBS questions whether CNN’s declaration that the movie with the stealing of cigars was photo shopped, or should we say video shopped?

      Manufactured crisis and that might be why my small town of a few hundred and one signal light had a roadblock yesterday with a sign that said school safety check.

      School starts next week, there were hundreds of agents and vehicles, the first one that stopped me in his blue uniform that only had the blazoned emblem of AGENT across his chest, did not smile when I said good afternoon AGENT. He motioned me to the officer who checked my credentials and beckoned me to have a nice day. hmm kind of thought it was safer being in a smaller town that no one cares about….

      1. Skirt, good catch. I noticed that the videos show him wearing “flip-flops”. The shots of him dead in the street have him wearing running shoes. The guy in the video has a goatee. I don’t know how recent the pictures of him without one are.

        I think the goal is to get the eaters used to the idea of military law. “Shock and awe”. “Protect and Serve” is so “90’s”.

        Hey, they blow up buildings full of people and shoot down airplanes. What’s a kid on the street? Current stats (from a system that only uses ‘volunteered’ information and 700 out of 1,700 agencies reporting), show over 400 cop-caused killings a year. That’s eight times the (questionable) reported deaths from “terrorism”. So, you’re eight times more likely to be killed by a cop (at least).

        Let’s not forget the jailing, harassing, “roughing up” of journalists. Anyway:

        Back to the commune; How this place lasted that long is a question Fish could answer. I never thought I’d do this but, I’m going to use a quote by Maggie Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people’s money”. It’s a good quote.

        The article you posted was a good read. Why the guy who contributed to it would live there for TWELVE YEARS!, is a mystery. I was trying to suggest that “pockets” of this type (and others) of behavior exist all over the place. I don’t think they can survive unassisted.

        I would imagine that someone who describes a life of utter privation and craziness would be a good candidate for “something” special. The old saying “its a small world” is true to a certain extent. I think the Champion, Isgut connection is VERY unlikely to be coincidence.

        Imagine, if you will, that a Satanic organization that has one center in San Francisco would suddenly decide to put an East Coast branch in Newtown. Well, it happened. Considering all the possible other locations for such a thing, is it strange to ask why?

        After they staged the event, would it be natural for a virtual who’s who of weirdness to come out of the local woodwork? I mean, what were they all doing there previously? Is there something in the water?

        So in the world of video production, whether its killer cops or lone nuts, all we have are the images. As always, the message is in what is not said.

      2. I don’t see obvious signs of the video having been altered, but am no expert on such things. What I do see is that the corpse has on the same basic outfit on as the man in the video, and that it’s very difficult to find any picture of Brown lying dead that allows close scrutiny of his footwear. But so far the staged theory isn’t working. The clothes match up and there do appear to be socks on Brown’s feet as he lay dead which is what ‘he’ wears with his flip flops in the store, although things are a bit blurred from his knees down in the still.

        The cops’ handling of the body might suggest an attempt to further incite the crowd, however.

      3. Sue, my point was not to say that it was “faked”. He may have robbed the store, I don’t know. More likely, the guy asked him for his ID or something and he just grabbed them and left. At any rate, shooting him dead is probably a little “harsh”.

        As Patrick says below, the militarization is disturbing. There is a basic difference between “policing” and “military occupation”. With the military, those occupied are “the enemy”.

        That is why we had Posse Commitatus. We are not supposed to be ruled by the police. The main difference in this episode is that somebody did something about it instead of quietly accepting it.

        The response to that little rebellion is telling. There isn’t anything new in this. We’ve known this a long time. This is just a visual demonstration of what we already knew.

        I like to remind people that nothing gets on TEE VEE without a careful vetting. As Dear Leader’s main squeeze Rahm likes to say, “never miss an opportunity”. While some are wringing their hands over this they are using it to show the fate of those who resist. They are also “moving the ball” a little closer to the goal by getting people to accept behavior that would not have been acceptable a few years ago.

        This country is swirling the bowl.

  14. Skirt, you live in a small town of a few hundred people and a bunch of agents and vehicles were stopping traffic and checking ‘credentials.?’ I wonder what they’re thinking.

    Some homeland security types are calling themselves ‘agents’ now. A guy came to the door who said he was a Homeland Security Agent and inquired about the person in the house next door. I explained that if I knew the information I certainly wouldn’t tell him. Go away, I explained.

    But what the hell would homeland security want in a small town like yours.

    1. There was an example a week or so ago, I believe in Pennsylvania. DHS was stopping all cars going in and out and marking people’s hands to show they had been “cleared’. They didn’t explain why.

      That’s how it works. They don’t ask permission. They just do. If you don’t comply you get arrested, detained or shot. If you ask about the Constitution they key your information into “the system”.

      Who you gonna call, Congress (ha!)?

    2. Mark Steyn, an immigrant from Canada who spent much of his life in Britain and frequently reminds us Americans how far we have swerved from Magna Carta (he likes to say that George III would not DREAM of the tyranny we blithely accept today–and when we were still Englishmen his tyranny was so unbearable that we fought a war to get free of him), has being writing a lot over the last few years, with growing alarm, about what has happened to American policing since Georgie Bush the Younger graced us with his gentle presence.

      Here’s the start of his excellent article ( on what’s happening in Ferguson:

      The “narrative” of Ferguson, Missouri changed somewhat today. But, amid the confusion, the blundering stupidity of the city’s police department remains consistent.

      This morning the Police Chief, Thomas Jackson, released security-camera shots of the late Michael Brown apparently stealing a five-dollar box of cigarillos from a convenience store. So the 18-year old shot dead by Chief Jackson’s officer was no longer a “gentle giant” en route to college but just another crappy third-rate violent teen n’er-do-well.

      This afternoon, the chief gave a second press conference. Why would he do that? Well, he’d somehow managed to create the impression in his first press conference that the officer who killed Mr Brown was responding to the robbery. In fact, that was not the case. The Ferguson policeman was unaware that Brown was a robbery suspect at the time he encountered him and shot him dead. Which is presumably why Chief Jackson was leaned on to give his second press conference and tidy up the mess from the first. So we have an officer who sees two young men, unwanted for any crime, walking down the middle of the street and stops his cruiser. Three minutes later one of them is dead.

      His whole analysis is excellent. He is growing ever more mystified as to why Americans can’t seem to notice how insane things are becoming, and why when we do take notice we do absolutely nothing to put an end to it.

      Trouble is, Mark Steyn would make mockery of the conversations that go on here. As accurate and level headed he is on so many topics, he’s, sadly, not one of us.

      1. I am glad you can admit that Mark Steyn is not one of us. I refuse to listen to any scripted talking head – ditched them all when it became obvious that they provided cover for constitutional atrocities perpetrated by the one. Doesn’t matter what else they may be correct on – they have failed at exposing the foundational corruption of the constitution and its Articles.

      2. Well, Kath, that is certainly your prerogative, but it puts you in a lonely place.

        The search for ideological perfection never works out very well. The perfect is the enemy of the good, this side of Christ’s return.

        Look at what is happening in Syria/Iraq right now. Why are the heads being hacked off? Because the hackees do not fit the theological model of the hackers. From the point of view of an American Christian, the difference between a Shiite and a Sunni is like the difference between a regular collie and a border collie. For them, it is a stench in Allah’s nostrils, not just worthy of death but requiring it.

        Someone said that the best thing that ever happened in the West was the Reformation, but it was also the worst thing, too, because now we have tens of thousands of versions of Christianity, whereas before we had only three. And denominations treat each other with an intensity of hatred, over the most minor of theological nuances. It’s disgusting.

        You mention the Constitution. If you click on my name, and read my most recent posting at my Web site, you will glean a little of my thought on the subject.

        It is my opinion that we should hold each other up when the other is mostly right, unless the thing they are wrong about is evil. I do not know why people like Mark Steyn wish to adhere to the official myths. Perhaps it is the knowledge that if they defy the myth they will never substitute for Rush again, or ever get to josh around about the topics of the day on Fox television. I will not judge him for that, as long as the rest of what he says is true, and helpful, and good.

        Ideological perfection, in my opinion, is for the Soviet Politburo, who put their pals to death for the slightest of slights. Not my cup of tea.

      3. Well we do part philosophies in that area then Patrick. Certainly I do not expect perfection but simply the mere truth – which is hard to come by by those who words (or omissions) insure their paychecks continue. For sure there is only one way, one truth, and one light. We both adhere to that idea and person.

        We are frail mortals tis true, but it is quite freeing to remove oneself from those who tell fairytales about what has happened to Article II section I clause V of the constitution. It is not a lonely place at all. I am surrounded by such a cloud of witnesses. That phrase can apply here as well. 🙂

  15. The homicidal racism displayed in Ferguson is part of a ‘ruin and rule’ strategy of American power. It has been displayed in foreign policy in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria, destroying the state to let chaos reign. This is an explicit policy of apartheid Israel which controls US Mideast policy., allowing it to rule over the pieces. It is being applied to domestic policy as well, to allow the oligarchy to steal from the American people anything that isn’t nailed down.

    Under increasing economic inequality, the deterioration of the physical assets of America, and the cultural deterioration, including the dumbing down of the population, is inevitable. Since Aristotle, it has been known that an impoverished population is easier to rule under despotism. This was dramatized in Orwell’s dystopia. The economic, cultural, and political ruin follows from this power fact. As the economic wealth of America increases, it is captured by the oligarchs the larger society left to rot to demoralize the population.

    But in addition, homicidal racism is used to divide and conquer. American has always been a highly racist society and therefore a violent society, since the only way to subjugate non-White races is by violence. So Whites are encouraged to engage in violence against non-Whites, and the various non-White groupings are encouraged to compete against each other, like the racial gangs.

    Just as the White planters in slave times picked a Black slave to flog the others, the White oligarchs under the Terrorist War picked Obama to lie to the people to institute the ‘divide and ruin’ policy. The militarized police, along with the military and intelligence agencies provide the violence to keep the American people subjugated. And the media and other truth institutions provide the untruth.

    1. On the whole I agree. What is arguably even more contradictory is the fact that the power structure has essentially allowed for black men to be manufactured and appointed as the nation’s commander in chief and foremost law enforcement officer. This prevents white liberals and progressives, whose own disavowed racism is manifest on deeper, more cex levels, from placing Obama and Holder’s identity in abeyance and critiquing them as statesmen first and foremost-ompl-alongside their actions–for all of their hideous excesses.

      The contemptuous hypocrisy of lib-progressives is to trust in the Obama administration solely because of Obama’s blackness, suggesting a combined guilt and smug, naive trust in a manufactured historical sensibility one can scarcely characterize as their own.

      1. What is “cex”? And “ompl”?

        I think you should limit your criticism to Democrats. I consider myself a progressive, but am not a Democrat, precisely for the reason you articulate. In Colorado, Federico Pena, Ken Salazar, Wellington Webb (black mayor of Denver), Ben “Nighthorse” Campbell, and several other members of minority groups–as well as Obama (at the 2008 DNC)–were automatically assumed by Democrats to be progressive simply because of their “minorityship” (Campbell’s being highly questionable, at that), with no real inquiry made into their backgrounds, when they were anything but. They were, in fact, stooges of the developers and bankers, and used their power in public office to give public property away under the table.

      1. the Sasquatch cop at the 2:10 mark behind the McDonnell’s seems to be the same exact cop footage in the backdrop at the 4 minute mark behind the other couple

      2. Have you seen the latest “apparent” CNN fraud using the same acress to be Lanza’s class mate as the one who “plays” the role of Foley’s sister

      3. Ray – thanks for noticing sasquatch – we will have to keep the eye out to see when he appears in the next movie.

        Yes it appears the sister of Foley and ‘friend’ of Adam appears to be a dead ringer. What is really bizarre about the only ‘friend’ of Adam ever found, was that she admitted on live tv, she really did not know him, never shared a class with him, but could tell from a distance he was really smart in grade school.

        Had a bad feeling with this interview of Foley’s parents, they are too joyful, dad tried to cry for a few seconds. He even said, we have been through this before, so let’s just let it rip.

        Seems to me the mom is the same actor that appeared in both the SHH and Boston hoax tv interviews, but refuse to use the energy to look into that.

        Actually saw a headline, probably on AJ, that anyone who viewed the beheading would be put on a watch list. It almost made me want to watch it to see how fake it was, but why bother?

        Peace and love to all!

      4. I think the fact that the Lame Stream Media had to admit that the Foley video was just that “Foley” and should be used towards convincing others who do not believe SHE, Boston, Santa Barbra and many others are just as fake.

        This should be exploited to the maximum.
        Fox News admits the beheading video is fake. I could have told them that a week ago. My wife thought I was crazy and was blown away last night when she saw it on the news.

        Once again, this should be exploited to the maximum.

        Here’s a good video from Mad Max.

  16. The Manson Family theme caused me to check the latest on the Slenderman attempted murderesses:

    The article discusses other ‘tween and teen famous murderers, and seems to be furthering the meme of group psychosis. I’m still not decided on it’s authenticity, but lean towards the faked side. I could be grasping, but I think it’s part of the process of massaging the concept of psychosis into something that could afflict a whole group of people with the internet serving the role of the guru or aggravating factor (when it comes to major neuroses the internet actually can enable and aggravate the condition; check out the internet gangstalking meme which seems to be mostly a projection).

    The Manson murders narrative requires us to believe Manson could somehow take what were fairly normal highschool kids and transform them into programmable human bot terminators within a few years, capable of performing gory crimes that would nauseate any normal person, both morally and physically. It blurred the lines between sanity, fantasy and homicidality to suggest that there exists some twilight in-between condition, just as the Slenderman story does; in the case of people who ‘think alike’ and fall prey to a nefarious, mesmerizing influence.

    When manic depression morphed into ‘bipolar,’ a very real genetic disease became a catch all and a cash cow from various angles; what had been known to manifest in the late teens or early adult years physiologically suddenly became a condition young children could suffer from. The Slenderman tween maniacs are a precursor to what will soon morph into the ‘discovery’ of a disease afflicting adults on the internet who dissent. Could Manson’s ‘family’ have been the original foreshadowing of this phenomenon? What function, besides a push back against the anti-war movement did it’s production serve? Was it also a distraction during some of the more casualty-heavy Viet Nam years? Were there, or have there become, longer term agenda goals that it engined?

    The girls are said to have planned this stabbing during a birthday slumber party, for which three friends seems an unusually low number for such events. But plans changed and the two conspirators stabbed their hapless friend right in the middle of the next day, enabling the victim to crawl, almost fatally wounded, out of the woods to a miraculous rescue. The miscreants are prosecuted in the one state which treats 12 year olds as adults, etc. There are just too many oddities, combined with the highly improbable blurring of childhood fantasizing in a pubescent mind, for my skeptic’s sensibilities.


      Would psychiatrists be allowed to testify in open court about the ‘mental illness’ symptoms of 12 year olds?

      This article is the five things you need to know about the case. I think there was a similar article about Elliot Rodger. A cop’s report which includes details of the victim’s medical condition is included which seems obviously suspect, as do some of the other pieces of evidence the media seems intent on proving to us exist.

      1. Sue, it is shocking. What I believe Manson did was what the MK Ultra people did to many. Taking kids with problems, playing on their need for love and attention, plying them with drugs, etc., warped their reality.

        Manson was not the “original”. This had been going on a long time. In fact LSD was an escapee of the program. Many students were volunteering for drug testing. They were getting others from orphanages, foster families, etc..

        The Manson Family was not “normal” by any standard. There were hundreds of thousands of people who “looked” like hippies, regardless of their personal or collective beliefs. If may not have been as sensational if they had looked like the Osmond Family, but they could have.

        This is not the only instance of cult phenomena going bad. I don’t fully understand the “Slender Man” thing. It MAY be a form of programming but I don’t think it is of the type Manson practiced. He was very methodical about it.

        Like I said in another post, you need “fodder” for something like this. Well-adjusted, confident people don’t get involved with cults. If they do, it doesn’t take them long to leave.

        Killing or harming someone can be considered “insane”. It can also be considered an absence of any strongly held morals. Killing someone for “fun” or “play” is especially disturbing. Statistically psychopaths constitute one percent of the population. That’s “clinical” psychopathy. That’s a lot of people. A larger percentage have “psychopathies”. I consider that to mean the ability to do psychopathic things.

        As with all of this, it isn’t new. It is difficult to tell if it is on the increase. I know that the “coverage” of it is. It does seem that young people lack empathy. To understand this better would require an admission that there was a problem.

      2. For the record, I am undecided on the authenticity of the Manson murders, although leaning heavily towards faked. Mathis explains the LaBianca murders as a combo of copycat style appropriated for a mob hit, which actually seems fairly plausible when one considers there might even have been connections between people like Bugliosi and the orchestrators. There was more coordination at times between the mob and the CIA than many realize; some on there might already know that. I can say that the jews ran the ‘italian’ mafia, in which italians were the middle men and jews sometimes camouflaged themselves as italians. Anyone interested in the topic might want to read Super Mob by Gus Russo.

        As for the Slenderman girls, I really think it’s fake. Besides a few too many unlikely coincidences going on, there’s also the issue of the police report I reference above. It’s just outrageous. It was supposed to be written by the arresting cop. It includes his name and all these details of the victim’s medical condition that he supposedly overheard in the ER. Since when do cops hang around in the ER while a victim is operated on, etc.? Don’t they basically help the paramedics by just accompanying an ambulance? I don’t even think in most cases they’d even enter the ER. Once I had a car accident and the cop had to take care of me until the paramedics arrived. I was in shock and wouldn’t allow any un-uniformed people near me without threat of imminent physical violence. So finally a cop arrives on scene and he had to help the paramedics get me in the braces that’s for anyone who might be spinally injured (I was not). He didn’t ride in the ambulance, although he did come into the ER and ask if I was okay and then left. I wasn’t undressed and the extent of my injuries were just an ugly head laceration, so I don’t think his entry into my little quarters was really invasive or anything.

        This report has the cop hanging around the ER, overhearing intimate Hippa-restricted details, and then copying them into the police report. I’m not a prosecutor; would it be protocol for a cop to be the one to convey Hippa-governed info about a victim’s injuries? I doubt it. I’d think the prosecutor would confer with the victim about this stuff if it needed to be addressed in court. I think it’s evidence that the governmedia is faking this; they’re overcompensating and trying to convince people of it’s authenticity, include compelling details of the victim’s injuries and engendering both belief in the incident and sympathy for the victim. They get around the Hippa laws with this little maneuver but I just consider it proof they’re trying too hard.

    2. ” Could Manson’s ‘family’ have been the original foreshadowing of this phenomenon? What function, besides a push back against the anti-war movement did it’s production serve? Was it also a distraction during some of the more casualty-heavy Viet Nam years? Were there, or have there become, longer term agenda goals that it engined?”

      The Miles Mathis paper on Sharon Tate is very long, and I’m not even one fourth the way through it. He argues that there were no Manson murders, that it was just a movie. The “Family” lived–literally–on a movie set; the event took place in the house of a director of horror movies; some of those supposedly killed were in real life actors.

      Sharon Tate’s dad was a Colonel in Army Intelligence; he dressed like a Hippy, to infiltrate the movement in Los Angeles. It is a strong possibility he operated out of Lookout Mountain, in the heart of Laurel Canyon, just down the way from the house where his daughter lived (and supposedly died).

      These oddities–which no one else seems to have noticed–only scratch the surface.

      Mathis believes (I think) that this movie was made precisely to kill off the Hippy movement. In any event, it seems to have done that pretty well.

      Dave McGowan, while researching the music scene in Laurel Canyon at the time (Manson was a key part of it, incidentally, living for a while in Dennis Wilson’s house, recording his compositions with Terry Melcher, etc), stumbled upon the facility in Lookout Mountain. It was a completely self-contained, full-scale movie studio, where military intelligence agencies produced thousands of propaganda films, using A-list Hollywood actors and directors. Investigating it further, he discovered an amazing overlap between the events of the Viet Nam war and the fakery of the Apollo program: each time we supposedly landed on the Moon happened–by sheer coincidence–to be the very same day an escalation/disaster occurred in the war. He tells this story, hilariously, in his series Wagging the Moondoggie (

      In the Laurel Canyon series (I can’t remember him mentioning it in the book, though), he speculates that drug-addled Hippy scene was a creation of military intelligence, designed specifically to discredit the anti-war movement, which was intellectual and culturally straight, primarily dominated by college professors, who were for the most part shocked as they saw the media systematically giving these filthy urchins center-place in the anti-war movement, pretty much crowding out coverage of the reasoned intellectualism that started it.

      Certainly, most of the characters we regard as the creators of the Rock music world all were connected to or lived in Laurel Canyon, and most of them came from military intelligence families. Some of them were even in Central America and Cuba when the Dulles brothers were “readjusting” the political makeup of countries that failed to understand that God intended for United Fruit Company to be calling the shots for them.

      Somehow, all these young people descended upon a rural neighborhood of a city that did not have a music publishing industry or nightclubs to play in–although these sprang into existence suddenly, just in time. Most of the acts were pretty awful–many of these guys couldn’t play musical instruments or sing; the early albums were all recorded by professional session musicians, which is why they sound so great, and why the live acts were so terrible at the start.

      The thing is, the national press promoted the Laurel Canyon bands relentlessly, and young Hollywood royalty hung out at the new clubs where they played, which distracted listeners from the awfulness of what they were hearing.

      All of these amazing developments did not happen simultaneously, by accident.

      So putting the two (Mathis and McGowan) together, we can say it looks like military intelligence created the Hippy movement to discredit the anti-war movement and the Rock music industry as a cultural mind control machine, and they engineered reporting about the fake Moon landings to run interference in the Media when the public might notice how horrible the things being done in their name in Viet Nam. And they used the fake Manson murders to kill off the Hippy movement when it was no longer useful; it was used to kick-start the Rock music industry that would mold the minds of the coming generations.

      As the years pass, and I keep paying attention, it really does look like everything around us is a lie.

      1. If the Manson murders were a created event, I can see a triple whammy effect.

        1. Demonize the hippy movement
        2. Distract from Vietnam
        3. Cultivate profitable fear (better get a security system for your house, and add more police to patrol. Crazies are everywhere.)

      2. A note…

        The first electronic home security system was invented in 1966, and patented less than four months after the Manson murders, Dec. 2nd, 1969.

      3. Manson actually recorded an LP, which I believe is now a collector’s item given its limited circulation.

        I was only a few years old when the Manson murders took place. Like more recent mediated atrocities we witness vicariously (Aurora, Sandy Hook, Boston, etc.) and cannot fully corroborate, it made a tremendous impression on me and a nation that was already divided in terms of its adherence to traditional values seeking to be reconciled with modernity’s contradictions vis-a-vis the apparent new sensibilities of the “hippie” movement that obscured that generation’s antiwar sentiment and activism. Add to this Vincent Bugliosi’s involvement and the made-for-TV movies on the subsequent Manson affair. The promotion of the entire lurid episode, perhaps not unlike the extent to which the Laurel Canyon bands were puffed up in the press, suggests the extent to which many journalists and news outlets were compromised through ties to or direct efforts on behalf of US intelligence, a fact confirmed in the 1970s through congressional investigations and personal mea culpas.

      4. @patrickchatsamiably:

        Read the Mathis argument declaring the Abraham Lincoln assassination story as an early ‘made in USA’ manufactured event.

        I’ve been studying Mathis (his writings) in my limited spare time, since encountering mention of him recently on this site (and in this very thread) and the man is exceptional, IMO.

        He (Mathis) very clearly, gets off on dissecting and debunking things as they are presented in and by mainstream media and organization ‘tools’ (historical and modern) and linking them all to a very long history of sordid, elitist mind control and deception of the general public by these ‘elitists’. He goes a little too far, on occasion, again IMO, but once again, IMO(!), is quite exceptional in his method/madness….and very worthy of study and note by the rest of us….

        Ned Lud

      5. I want to state what I knew growing up in So. Calif. In 1966, I was a sophomore in high school. I found myself dating a guy from the boys’ school associated with my Catholic girls’ high school (I only attended one year). I cannot remember how I met him – a dance maybe, or some other girl’s friend. But his father was a Major General who would later be heavily involved in Vietnam. He had a sort of break-down and was stalking (as we would say today) an ex-girlfriend (he was so young, their break-up hit him hard, and I think they had gone all-the-way so he felt entitled to her). His father gave him a credit card and a nice car, and told him that if he didn’t ask me out, he would. I don’t know why that would make him jump, but I guess he did. He told me about his older sister who at 21 had moved up to Haight-Ashbury with her boyfriend and was dropping acid there. Think about it – two general’s kids, in a time when parents had a lot more power than nowadays – and one of them is making the scene in hippiedom. It strikes me as odd now. Not sure if it did then. I got the idea later that the hippie movement was a product of the press, like Time Magazine and others.

        I was certainly taken in by the moon landing, but two things felt wrong to me in those days: the ability of Oswald to move between Russia and America so fluidly, and the hippie movement which went well beyond a fashion statement. I had seen the rise of the Beatles and the British Invasion. No doubt those guys were popular for two reasons: their talent and the promotional efforts of their industry. Everyone knows there is an artificial component in any mania around a pop star. But for “news” events we are supposed to assume there never is. This is the gap in most peoples’ thinking about such things.

        Years later, while working at a military sub-contractor with all the usual brush-cut ex-low level military types, I heard my boss talk about how they’d find the Tate-LaBianca killers – “a bunch of hippies” – now gentlemen, go back to your charts and drawing boards and calculate the oil exploration altimetry data (some say the real thing underlying the maps was bombing runs for Cambodia – but we did not know the longitude and latitude of what we were dealing with). One could feel vindicated that evil hippie peaceniks were actually degenerates while people who worked in “defense” were the good guys. Hey, don’t we still hear that? “We’re the ‘good guys'”.

      6. Erratum: “How the FOUND” the Manson gang. He had not prognosticated, only reported the event, which he probably heard on the radio in his office the day the Manson gang was arrested, and was announcing it to the floor where we were working.

      7. I found Mathis’s writing several months ago and have been hungrily reading his non-scientific work since. I don’t know if his conclusions are all correct or correct at all, but they certainly give food for thought. Intuition tells me that his suspicions about Satanism being mostly fabricated by the CIA, et al, is probably true. Following this line of reasoning, it would lead that folks like Ted Gunderson and Fritz Springmeier are probably disinfo agents. It also makes me think that perhaps all the true crime I read in the 80s and 90s were not as “true” as I thought (still, it’s a subject that would be interesting to discuss another time).

        I do wonder how all the symbolism we’re awash in fits into the picture (of the Vigilant Citizen type, I mean). Mathis has written several essays about the CIA’s involvement in pop culture, from music to literature and even fine art. Those essays are quite a bit shorter and well worth the read. I haven’t found that he’s addressed the symbolism, though, and they MUST bear some relevance to this. Many of the hand gestures and symbols have been used in pop culture for DECADES…I thought it was a relatively new phenomenon, but it isn’t…the old “one eye” thing has been around at least since the 60s. Maybe psychedelia helped usher in many of our now-familiar symbols?

        I hadn’t known that Oak Ridge, TN, had the (short) history it does. I didn’t know a thing about the plutonium experiments. Somehow, it’s scarier to me than even than the idea of black ops like MK Ultra (though up there with Project Paperclip).

        How easily we humans are tricked. We are limited by our experience and our senses and our lack of imagination. And even by our goodness. What makes us human makes us vulnerable.

        Food for thought. At least we’re not dying from starvation 🙂

      8. In response to James’ remarks, one interesting thing Mathis mentions is how new the television audience was in the 1960s, so how unsophisticated the viewing public was at the time, thus no one noticed how really poor the production values were.

        I was born in 1960, and was the oldest kid in the family, and no one was talking about stuff like this in my world at the time, so I only learned about the event years later. But I DO remember my mother telling me that hers was the first house on the block with a television set. That was the 50s. All the kids would come over to watch the few shows.

        The recentness is an important fact to keep in mind. Within living memory, television didn’t exist. Within my mother’s teen-aged memory, it was a novelty. When I was a kid, they were just gaining their sea-legs in using it to mold public consciousness. Production values have gotten better, but the ridiculousness has not changed–nor has the credulousness of the viewing public.

        And for Recynd, I think what the Vigilant Citizen does is point out the physical demonstrations they are constantly presenting us with, as they systematically indoctrinate us. Youth who can hardly believe that television did not exist in their grandparents’ generation are particularly the target of this planned attack. I’m glad he’s out there, explaining music videos I would not under any circumstances even know exist. I have shown some of this to my daughter, who knew perfectly the videos he’s deconstructing, and she’s replied: no one I know would see any of that. Which is precisely the point: it is deep indoctrination, subtle, sustained over a lifetime.

      9. Patrick and all, being somewhat older (it appears), and having lived through this period as a young adult, it wasn’t exactly as speculated by some.

        While a lot of the connections ARE interesting, there are a few perceptions that need adjustment. Laurel Canyon was NOT the “center of rock music”, or even close to it. I have been a lifelong musician and was playing music during this era. Of course we hoped to “make it big” at the time as well.

        I was in Northern California. I can assure you that we did not consider LA to be the “center of the universe”. We considered it to be phony, “plastic” was the term, faddish, and full of pseudo-hippies. Those were people who looked the part but had no depth.

        What DOES distinguish LA is that the major labels were there. Anyone who wanted to be a star had to deal with that. It was an ugly business. It really doesn’t make any difference whether they wore buckskins or polyester, it was a slimy business.

        The idea that the “hippie era” was monolithic and consisted of “drug-addled” losers rambling around producing nothing is simply wrong. It was very large, worldwide in fact, and many faceted. Just as the media portray things they don’t like in a negative manner today, it was similar then.

        Just as an example, I don’t remember anyone mentioning Laurel Canyon during that period. It certainly didn’t loom large in my thinking or any of my acquaintances either. We were more focused on the Fillmore, or Winterland in San Francisco.

        As to the “drug-addled”, there were a lot of people getting high. It wasn’t always done to “party”. Some of us had more esoteric reasons. I would submit that those with no experience at that can hardly judge those who participated. In fact, they cannot possibly know what they are talking about regarding the nature of reality.

        As to Manson, it is hard to know where the hype begins and the propaganda ends. It should be known that there was a lot of consternation over TPTB losing control over a large sector of eaters as a result of them looking for alternatives. What better way to demonize what has been referred to as a “movement”? In fact, it was an “anti-movement”. It had no leaders. There were people who tried. Opportunists are ubiquitous.

        As to the military involvement, I have said many times that people put too much emphasis on things like that. Most military types never had an original thought in their lives. They are not allowed to “freelance”. They COULD be operatives if so assigned.

        Having said that, I would agree that those officials who practice “the black arts” would be VERY interested in this. Anything that can be used to control is of interest to them. Could they have manipulated it? Sure. Did they start it? No.

        The period we call the “Hippie Era” arose from the “Beats”. It was an attempt to escape a controlled future. I wouldn’t be surprised to see attempts to co-opt that. Between the psyops people and the commercial parasites, they were all over it. That shouldn’t be a surprise. It is happening right now.

        As a final thought, this return to complacency and conformity is not an improvement. The lifestyle did not create Manson. Manson used the lifestyle to his own manipulative ends. Whether Manson was used himself is an open question.

        I’ve read what Bugliosi and others have said. I don’t trust him. He is a huge opportunist and self-promoter. Much of what he wrote displays his ignorance of his subject. What the Manson Family did and how they lived was in no way typical. It was simply a group of misfits lead by a psychopath. I don’t know if he was acting as an agent of others.

        Some may have noticed with the “War on Terror” meme that the FBI seems to manufacture “terrorists” from just such people. It was no different then. Any sort of group was thoroughly infiltrated, whether political, had musical influence, or was simply useful.

      10. Well, lophatt, you were there and I was not. All I an doing is reporting what I have read. Dave McGowan is my age, so he had nothing to do with the scene, even though he grew up in the region (I was in Chicago, a world away).

        Still, it is extremely difficult to imagine it even being possible that musicians in Northern California did not consider Laurel Canyon the birthplace of the Rock music industry. Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young, Zappa, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, The Mamas and the Papas, The Allman Brothers, America, The Doors, The Beach Boys, Three Dog Night, Steppenwolf, Phil Spector, Hendrix, The Byrds. Gram Parsons. Buffalo Springfield. All the sounds of the time originated there.

        And unless his reporting is incorrect, there were no record labels in Los Angeles when the kids started descending into the Canyon. As I say, I only know what I have been reading, but Dave says the recording labels miraculously appeared just in time for the bands who would need them, just as the clubs did; prior to that tiny window of time, New York and Nashville were the places to go to cut record deals.

        As I say, this is not my field, though.

      11. Well Patrick, you can believe whatever you wish. I can tell you for certain that Laurel Canyon was not the holy grail of music at the time. LA did have record labels and those of us that were interested in signing with one of those knew that.

        What I’m saying is that the music out of LA consisted of the Doors and Frank Zappa and a few others. That is hardly the totality of music at the time. Those of us in San Francisco saw ourselves as the source of this phenomena, not imitators.

        Looking at something anyone wrote as definitive that describes LA as the “source” is inaccurate. All I was trying to point out is that, having lived through it, I know better.

        I was in a couple of bands that came very close to signing with one of the labels. We had to make the pilgrimage to LA (with gritted teeth). The only people imitating the LA Scene were people from LA.

        Whatever form the Mansion thing took, it was not a model for what everyone else was doing. There were many different aspects of this. That’s why we used to say “do your own thing”, it wasn’t about control.

        So I know that Dave McGowen writes about the period. Good for him. How could I argue with someone who writes about something they have no personal experience with?

        In fact, I don’t necessarily disagree with everything he says, just the parts where he’s wrong.

      12. lophatt, Today I was finally able to listen to Sofia’s conversation with Dave, and he makes a strong point (late) in the interview, reinforcing his research on the website and in the book, that there were no recording labels in Los Angeles before the seminal bands of the era came into existence. This changed, with the Byrds, in 1964.

        He contends that prior to that, you would have to travel to New York or Nashville to negotiate a record contract. Perhaps you were in the business in the years after which the music industry relocated itself?

        Again, I–and he–were just little kids at the time. I was amused when he told Sofia that he was more interested in what the Brady’s were doing at the time. I often say I was just moving up to a 3-speed bicycle. I didn’t purchase my first record until 1970. I remember a record store clerk some months after that, when I was asking about George Harrison, whom I had heard tell of, talking to me about the Beatles in the past tense. I had no idea what he was talking about.

        So reading about that lost world, the music of which saturated much of my subsequent life, is fascinating to me. But if Hippies were not drug-sodden urchins, all I have to go on is report and rumor, because I was sitting in front of the set watching Gilligan’s Island at the time, just like Dave, and wondering if giving up the banana seat was true best idea after all. All I have to go on is the book The Electric Cool-Aid Acid Test, and the body of work revolving around it–which it took a long time to even remotely grasp the meaning of.

        I’ll say this about the cultural anthropology this discussion has engendered: the Hippy phenomenon possesses a cultural “charge” that won’t dissipate with time. That indicates a spiritual element. It wasn’t a “fad.” Something else was going on.

        McGowan assembled his presentation from strictly mainstream sources, and never does much speculation. Thus, people who try to debunk him always find themselves crashing to the ground. So I’m guessing your music industry adventures happened post-1964, when there were finally record labels in LA.

        (Incidentally, he makes a point of saying that the Laurel Canyon period was quite brief, and that the Monterey Pop Festival in 1967 began the migration of the scene north.)

        It is always tough trying to understand the truth when confronted with a researcher on the on hand and a person who lived through it who contradicts that research. I wasn’t there, and I really don’t have a dog in that race. I just want to understand our shared, hidden, history.

      13. Capitol Records came about in 1942. They set up shop on Sunset Bld. that year. Not related to the hippies, but Detroit’s Motown (formerly Tamla Records) was formed in 1960 and relocated to LA in 1972.

        My ex-husband was involved in the music industry and we relocated often among the major recording cities that were London, NYC, Nashville and Los Angeles. I am probably closer to lophatt’s age and let me tell you, it is not a pretty business from the administrative side either.

        I do like country music the way it was, not the crossover kind. Nashville was and is a big player in the dark side of the music industry.

      14. “As the years pass, and I keep paying attention, it really looks like everything around us is a lie.”

        Patrick, if only others would even CONSIDER to be true, what you have stated here. I need to be accurate here, and consider absolutes. I have five Arborvitae trees in my backyard. This is not a lie. However, the fact that I do indeed have five Arborvitaes in my backyard in no way affects the behavior of the masses towards God, government, or other citizens.

        The lies we are considering are those which DO have an impact on the minds and actions of the citizens of any given culture or state. They are outright lies, half-truths, disinformation, confusion, deception….you get the picture.

        Satan is the god of this age, and has veiled the truth to all those who are perishing (2nd Corinthians chapter 4, verses 3-6). The devil is a liar, and is the father of lies, as Jesus stated clearly in John 8:44. THESE TRUTHS CANNOT BE EMPHASIZED ENOUGH.

        If a liar and a murderer has dominion over any group of people, regardless of how large that group is, it follows reason that the subjects of that dominion will be inherently given over to lies and murder.

        And so we have the world at hand. Its why man keeps groping in the darkness, looking for morsels of truth here and there, just to placate his fears, even if only temporarily. I am convinced that man wants to know that at some point the spinning will stop, and his thinking can, and will, finally be clear.

        But unless you know where to look for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, you will remain in the devils matrix, at least in this life. And ultimately, eternally, for those who love lies rather than truth, the end is unspeakable.

        The Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, who reluctantly gave the order for Jesus to be crucified, asked a rhetorical question in response to Jesus declaration “Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” He asked, “What is truth?” Pilate did not believe in absolute truth (Jn 18:36-38).

        I do. Do you?

      15. “Intuition tells me that his (Mathis) suspicions about Satanism being mostly fabricated by the CIA, et al, is probably true. Following this line of reasoning, it would lead that folks like Ted Gunderson and Fritz Springmeier are probably disinfo agents.”

        Recynd, “intuition” tells you that the “suspicions” of some author stating Satanism is “mostly” fabricated by the CIA….and then “following” this line of “reasoning” it “would” lead that….

        Really? If I were appointed by Henry Bosley Woolf of Merriam-Webster to define the word “vague” I believe I would use this portion of your post verbatim.

        What in the world is intuition? A science? Is it in any way measurable? And the “suspicions” of Mr. Mathis regarding Satanism being “mostly” fabricated by the CIA tells me he is clueless in this area. Satanism is not only NOT a fabrication, by any measure, but is undeniably the least understood reality in this WORLD because it is grossly misunderstood and misrepresented in cultural mythos.

        Under the heading of Satanism fall many. Masons, Knights of Columbus, Shriners, The United Way….MOST OF TODAYS CHURCHES….(a glance at the doctrines will suffice…LOOK CLOSELY)

        You see, Recynd, Satan doesn’t need to be openly worshipped…yet (the antichrist will accomplish this), he just doesn’t want the one true God to be worshipped, and so Satan is covertly worshipped by the myriad of the worlds false religions (and the belief that there is no God is also a false religion…faith in evolution, humanism, or any variation thereof).

        When you accuse anyone, Recynd, even behind in the slightest of veils, of being an agent of disinformation, you need SUBSTANTIVE EVIDENCE, not the vague nonsense you brought to this table.

        What I am relying on is the leading and wisdom of the Holy Spirit of the Lord God Almighty. His Spirit is given to indwell any and all who receive Jesus Christ by faith. His Spirit confirms that Fritz Springmeier is a brother in Christ, and therefore on the side of truth. He is not a CIA operative. He is not an agent of the devil, which is what CIA agents are.

        Look for yourselves. Springmeiers writings can be found on our website, Click on the Articles of Interest Page.

        You will never look at this life in the same way.

        1. You’re right, my comments were vague. But I didn’t do it to be infuriating or underhanded.

          What I was trying to say is that it makes more reasonable sense to me that the military (or some other well-organized, well-financed group like the CIA) would be directing things on a global scale (perhaps under the purview of Satan), rather than a loose-knit group of “Satanists”. It might have been helpful if I’d have defined my terms (it’s a bit late to do it now but I’ll think to do it in the future). But assuming they are in fact two distinct entities, it stands to reason that IF the CIA (or whomever) is in fact running the show like Mathis claims (though I have no idea if this is the case or not), THEN Springmeier, et al. (i.e., those who cry “Satanism”) would likely be disinformation agents, because they’re re-directing the focus from the military/government to witches/Satanists/theosophists/Masons/etc. But still, this is mere speculation, “what if” logic. And maybe there’s a flaw in my logic…if there is, please point it out so I will learn.

          Just to give you and the others here a sense of who I am (since I do tend to be “vague” in this forum, though I prefer to think of it as “diplomatic” or “tactful”), I am a follower of Jesus Christ, am quite religious, and I definitely believe that we are witnessing the great loosing of Satan on the earth as described in prophecy. I consider myself to be a social conservative; in the past I have voted Republican, but I now politically lean towards anarchism/voluntaryism, which is a fairly lonely place to be. Like most everyone here, I know the menace of conspiracy (both modern and ancient) and have studied many examples of them. However, I am not a strict conspiracy theorist: I try to take an all-encompassing perspective, which includes considering the historical, global, personal, and, sometimes, conspiratorial, contexts of any particular event.

          By nature, I am more of a cynic than a skeptic. But even with evidence to support a particular claim, I’m always acutely aware of the fact that I don’t know the whole story. I’m still on the fence about many of the most vocal “whistleblowers” (for lack of a better term; includes Gunderson, Springmeier, Cooper, Marrs, Schnoebelen, etc.); what they have to say is, to the man, interesting and thought-provoking to be sure, but unless I can see the bigger picture (like I explain, above) and have it make sense, I can’t take it as gospel fact. For better or for worse, unless I’m very comfortable with my understanding of an issue, I have a difficult time taking a strong position. Once bitten, twice shy, as they say. However, I AM convinced that, broadly speaking—and in the most simple of terms—we’re facing Good vs. Evil. For the record, the ONLY person I have ever publicly accused of putting out disinformation is Jordan Maxwell…he is a liar and a fraud.

          I hope you don’t assume that because I question Springmeier I haven’t read him. I have; more extensively than I wish, actually (it’s very, very dark material), but I’m more than happy (in fact, I look forward) to check out your link. I’m sure I’ll have questions galore.

          I come here mostly to read what others have to say, but occasionally I like to offer an idea or thought…not so much that I feel like I have something new to say, but to share, to feel a part of. It helps, too, to try to articulate my thoughts. I think this forum is quite singular, and I’m grateful it’s here. I like and respect James very much, I love reading the comments, and I always learn something new.

      16. Patrick, I’m afraid, as usual, that I’ve done a poor job of explaining myself. I’m not sure how to get my point across.

        As Anne says, the record industry has been around for a lot longer than “hippies”. Dave Mc Gowan’s focus on LA is interesting, I just don’t happen to agree with some of his conclusions.

        I also have a problem with people portraying this era as monolithic. It most certainly was not. As Mr. Miroddi seems to imply, this is not about “good vs bad”. For me, I’m very careful with my “absolutes”.

        To set the stage this was a period of the Viet Nam war. People divided themselves, essentially, into “conformists” and “non-conformists”. So, either you wore a button down shirt and pocket protector, went to all the football games and dreamed of a new Mustang convertible, or you did what I did.

        Most, in their own way, were trying to find an alternative to what they saw as “standard” around them. As people did and still do, their choices reflected their personalities.

        As to the “CIA control” etc., I maintain that EVERYTHING is manipulated. Some things may lend itself more easily to that than others, but, rest assured, there are no shortage of opportunists who see everything as grist for their mills.

        As to LA, I am and was very familiar with it. My mother lived in San Diego and I had relatives all over LA, as well as friends. At the time, just like with the movies, people in music often went to LA to be “discovered”. To my and my associate’s tastes, LA represented much flash and little substance.

        I would further add that just because a band recorded on an LA label doesn’t mean that the band originated in LA. At a certain level one’s manager generally starts to make decisions for your future that often results in a change of location.

        So, I suppose I’m trying to cover too much territory. I don’t really care what someone’s opinion or misconception of the “hippie era” is, I just don’t like to see it portrayed inaccurately or shallowly. What we have today is not an improvement.

        Music is another subject dear to my heart. As Anne says, Nashville is a pit in it’s own way. This is what happens when art meets finance. The artist needs money, the monied need their blood.

        Beyond that, TPTB would certainly prefer the button down shirt types. They want control, not experimentation.

      17. I don’t think Woodstock has been mentioned in the hippie discussion. Woodstock is alive and well with its own museum.

        “For those of you who picture a career in museums as dull and full of dust, my I present to you the Museum at Bethel Woods, which is located at the original site of the Woodstock Festival. Contrary to popular belief, the institution is less about drugs, sex, and rock and roll and more about the cultural, social, and political upheavals of the 1960’s – but neither topic is boring!”

        “We Are The World”

        The story behind the recording of We Are The World, showing the good side of the industry. Presented by Jane Fonda. Real well and professionally done. 52 minutes long, the finished product starts at 42 minutes. Well known talent on display here and Michael Jackson the way he was. The stars were asked to leave their egos at the recording studio door and they did. From January 1985 – seems like the good, old days for some of us. Not quite sure when this last hippie period ended, perhaps by the mid seventies? This recording from only ten years later presents a very different picture.

        It was claimed in a Time Magazine article that the hippie movement is not new and goes back to the Ancient Greeks. There were the Bohemians in Europe, hippies of their time, from the early nineteenth century. Guess there lives a hippie or a Bohemian in most of us?

        Performers from We Are The World, courtesy of
        • Dan Aykroyd
        • Harry Belafonte
        • Lindsey Buckingham
        • Kim Carnes
        • Ray Charles
        • Bob Dylan
        • Sheila E.
        • Bob Geldof
        • Hall and Oates
        • James Ingram
        • Jackie Jackson
        • LaToya Jackson
        • Marlon Jackson
        • Michael Jackson
        • Randy Jackson
        • Tito Jackson
        • Al Jarreau
        • Waylon Jennings
        “Pop-Up Video” stated that he left the recording session due to a dispute over the lyrics.
        • Billy Joel
        • Cyndi Lauper
        • Huey Lewis and the News
        • Kenny Logins
        • Bette Midler
        • Willie Nelson
        • Jeffery Osborne
        • Steve Perry
        • The Pointer Sisters
        • Lionel Richie
        • Smokey Robinson
        • Kenny Rogers
        • Diana Ross
        • Paul Simon
        • Bruce Springsteen
        • Tina Turner
        • Dionne Warwick
        • Stevie Wonder
        • Michael Boddicker – Synthesizers, Programming
        • Paulinho da Costa – Percussion
        • Louis Johnson – Bass
        • Quincy Jones – Producer
        • Michael Omartian – Keyboards, Producer
        • Greg Phillinganes – Keyboards
        • John Robinson – Drums

      19. Lophatt, it seems that something I said has caused you to arch your back a bit, and I get that. I have a permanent hump.

        My philosophy is simple, for me anyway, because I get it from somewhere else. I trust the Scriptures in all matters of understanding.

        The “good vs. bad” comment you attributed to me is way off. I never said that. “Good vs. bad” is so generic a phrase that if our salvation were dependent on ones general acceptance of its pretense, there would be a lot of real estate in the lake of fire (Rev chpts. 20-21).

        What IS occurring now, and has been since the serpent offered to open the eyes of Eve, is the conflict of the ages; Gods eternal truths against Satan’s myriad of oppositions to them.

        And the 1960s were no different than the previous six thousand years of human history, nor the years since. On this earth Jehovah/Yahweh works through human agents.

        So does His adversary.

      20. Recynd, I really didn’t intend to come off as it appears I may have to you. Thank you for sharing your story; who you are. Thank you for being personal in an impersonal age. And please forgive me.

        I am so tired of having to sift through information, wondering whether or not what I am reading or hearing is true.

        There are very few in this life that I trust to be truthful. And being a biblical Christian (as opposed to honoring Him with my lips only) this is most distressing.

        Although I have never spoken personally to Fritz Springmeier, as I stated, I am relying on the discernment of the Holy Spirit to help in the weeding of phonies. As a result, Bill (my ministry partner) and I have distanced ourselves from state (501(c)3) churches and are worshipping in a home congregation.

        Let me suggest to you, and to all, reading Renald Showers book “What On Earth Is God Doing? Satans Conflict With God.” Mr. Showers accomplishes what few, if any, have; laying out in detail, with Scriptures to support, the spiritual battle that has been occurring since Satan rebelled. This warfare has DIRECT affect on ALL of the affairs of mankind, throughout ALL of history.

        Satan has dominion of all of the worlds governments, and all of their agencies. So when the CIA or Homeland Security act, they are acting at his behest. I know this may sound extreme…absolute…but prove me wrong from Scripture.

        The human response to all the lies and sufferings of man is to hold onto the belief that there is a human panacea to all of it….somehow and somewhere.

        There isn’t. Its a spiritual battle. It always has been and it always will be…until Satan, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire.

        Sobering truth friends.

      21. “Satan has dominion of all of the worlds governments, and all of their agencies. So when the CIA or Homeland Security act, they are acting at his behest.”

        Another way of saying this, Joseph, is that institutions are bigger than the sum of their parts. Thats the heart of the delusion people operate under when they say that governments and corporations “are just people.” No, they’re not, any more than I am nothing but a collection of trillions of cells. There is a ghost in the machine.

        There is a spirit realm, another dimension, that overlaps this one, and the entities that reside there have the power to enter the material realm. Those who are loyal to God only do so to accomplish tasks in His business, and then leave. Those in rebellion stay, looking for flesh to occupy; this can take the form of demonization of an individual, or taking up rulership of institutions.

        This is why all institutions tend to go bad, no matter how well the future possibilities are anticipated. Its why the devil can ruin the institutional Church–why denominations abandon their founding vision and why individual congregations go to ruin. And don’t get me started on governments.

      22. Patrick, just another couple of comments. It is not true that one had to travel to NYC to find a label. In fact, just as an author doesn’t need to go to NYC to find a publisher, a musician can record wherever they can find a studio. There were plenty all over California at the time.

        The “business” end was conducted primarily in LA, although there were offices in San Francisco. The “promotion” aspect is where the label comes in. At my young, delicate and naive age at the time I thought that would be great.

        Many went to be “discovered” by a scout and asked to do a demo tape. It is quite a leap to go from the fact that musicians (and actors) went to LA to find work in the entertainment business to automatically assuming that those involved were mind-controlled slaves or agents.

        I will willingly admit that those who wish to control certainly used this era, as they would any other, to advance their agenda. Perhaps the fact that appearances gave the illusion that everyone who looked a certain way thought alike. That was certainly not the case and many people looked the part who’s beliefs were contrary to what the movement was all about.

        Anne’s comments on Woodstock and the museum are interesting. That event was driven by another Hollywood promoter. Just as today, it isn’t and wasn’t hard to get artists to perform for something they thought was cool or to promote someone’s agenda.

        One interesting change has been that independent musicians can now produce their own music without the label involvement. I personally think that the stuff being hyped on the radio these days is dross. That’s why there are so many “classic” rock and roll stations.

        There are still great musicians out there. A lot of them make a decent living touring smaller venues and releasing their original material independently. You just don’t hear them on the radio.

        I still have great memories of concerts and meeting various players in the 60’s and 70’s. That was a magical time for music. I suppose equating Charles Manson with that is disturbing to me. No matter what the real story was behind that, he was not indicative of all the other things happening at the time.

        We are living in the era of control that we were trying to break free from. The comments about this being some sort of “beginning” to psyops are worthy of note. The problem with that is that, when one does that analysis the “beginning” keeps moving backward in time.

        We have all these technological advances now. The psychological underpinnings of how to use emotional material for a desired end are not new. At present the media is totally controlled. Before there were some outlets that countered that to some degree.

        Actually, nothing beats the internet for instant response. That wasn’t possible before. You had to read an article and try to share a response. That took much time and received little attention. In some ways they have to be more aware of scrutiny now than then.

        So, back to McGowan’s views, I have no doubt that events and personages were used. They are always used. What happened today is being used just like what happened then. Did they stage it? I don’t know. I’ve read quite a bit about it and I’m undecided. Just like I keep saying that just because something is a fake doesn’t mean nobody died, that applies to that as well.

        Those who place limits on what certain people will do are dangerously naive. They do whatever will do the trick. They are untroubled by things that make the rest of us squirm.

      23. My gut instincts tell me Patrick got a lot right with his original post on the 60’s and government meddling. Anyone who’s interested can just surf youtube; there are tons of videos exploring the topic of the CIA’s involvement with the counter culture movement. Type in mind control, psy op, CIA, the 60’s, hippies, etc. and you’ll find loads of them.

        Some are claiming Kesey was supplied with the LSD he took on the Merry Prankster tour by the CIA. I have no firm conclusion.

        One reason Patrick’s post resonates is because Jim Morrison always struck me as a mostly empty suit, and I never understood how/why he became such an icon. Then I find out his father was top level naval intelligence. In general, there just seems to be a lot of truth in the notion that much of the counter culture had government backing and instigation, from various angles.

        When I found out, in recent years, that Steinem worked for the CIA I wasn’t that surprised on some level. She was vapid and sometimes seemed to misdirect the feminist movement on purpose, in a way. Instead of addressing economic hardships that women faced, she almost seemed to want to make tensions between women and men, different classes, etc., worse. She talked in circles sometimes like the butterfly person who flew in here briefly.

        It’s creepy, lophatt, to think that some cultural force or movement you believed in wasn’t all you thought it was, or that it was fake and designed to deceive or misguide people. But that doesn’t change the facts. My overall sense is there was a lot of spontaneous stuff going on but tons of government orchestration as well. I could be wrong about the music industry in the 60’s, and I wasn’t alive or ‘there,’ but Patrick still seemed to elucidate a truth that makes sense on a gut level. And there is a lot of proof out there to back the intuition up.

      24. lophatt,

        Dave has been doing a lot of interviews lately, and I might be wrong but I think its the one with Sofia where he comments that all of Los Angeles seems to be controlled by the CIA. His point is that any scandal or crime that touches on Hollywood or other celebrities comes immediately under the control of intelligence people, and the police are just water boys. He contends that the sole system is beyond corrupt there, and has been for almost a century.

        What got him started on this project was the strange fact that all these young artists arrived at the same time to a small neighborhood in a city with no music scene; it was nothing like Greenwich Village, where struggling artists gradually struggled, playing coffee houses for years, hoping to be noticed by the recording industry. They all became hugely famous at the same time, the moment they arrived there, essentially, even though many of them were not even musicians at the start.

        The thing that really caught his attention was a secret military intelligence base was located at the center of the Laurel Canyon neighborhood, and that it is difficult to find many of the young new stars whose families were not very high up in the military/military intelligence world, often going back generations. Sharon Tate, who was one of the Young Turks, for instance: her father, Paul, was a colonel in Army intelligence, who most probably was stationed at Lookout Mountain, but he dressed like a Hippy and tried to blend in. What he was after, no one can know.

        Mathis, in his article on Tate, points out that Sharon’s house on Cielo Drive is directly visible from Lookout Mountain; with telescopes, every movement around the house could be observed. This is an important aspect of his argument that no one was murdered there, that it was all fake, and that Sharon later showed up as her nonexistent sister “Patty.”

        In that article he builds a case that the Manson “family” was also entirely fake, and that Charley was an intelligence asset from the moment he bot out of jail to the fake murders and ridiculous “trial.” The young girls were not sexualized, or drugged; they came from fine families that were assured nothing was going to happen to their kids. Most of the myth was just made up by Bugliosi. Very interesting theory. At the end, he claims that none of the players ever really went to prison; they’re just brought there periodically to reprise their roles for interviews and photo ops.

      25. I forgot to add Dave’s observation that all these young fellows were of Draft age, and none of them were drafted. Moreover, they openly flouted the drug laws, even being caught selling outlawed drugs, but nothing ever happened to any of them. He finds this suspicious.

        He never constructs a theory to explain the strange confluence of beyond “coincidental” factors that comprised that brief moment in that remote, very, very strange section of a VERY corrupt city. He just points it out, and says it can’t be coincidence. What it IS, he does not say.

        Why he is under the impression that there was no music publishing going on in LA in the early 60s, I have no idea.

      26. Patrick where is the article by McGowan on Manson? All I see on the link you provide is a way to order the two books he wrote. Is there some article or excerpt of his book on Manson that you have a link to? I’d really love to read about it.

        Who came up with the skinny on Manson on here? This has been a great memoryhole discovery. So few have even questioned the truth behind ‘Helter Skelter.’

      27. Sue, it is Miles Mathis who argues that the whole Manson story is fake. It’s a very long piece, but with every word: It’s called “The Tate Murders were a False flag.”

        McGowan has references strewn throughout his book, and the articles on his Web site, but Mathis is the one I think you’re asking about. Still, off and on, over the years, Dave has mentioned that he considers Bugliosi a fraud for many reasons.. Reading everything he writes is a good policy.

        1. Oh, I thought you were saying that McGowan had written on Manson specifically and wanted to do more research. I already read Mathis’ long article. He made a pretty compelling argument.

          Which piece of writing does McGowan mention Bugliosi’s dealings in?

      28. Sue, the point I keep trying to make (unsuccessfully), is that Jim Morrison, or Miley Cyrus for that matter, is a product of the promoters at the record label. They are “products”.

        Now, would the CIA (or any other alphabet soup agency) use the promoters and all concerned? Sure.

        This should be more familiar to the people at this site than most. Do you think that “ISIS” just sprang into existence and all the presstitutes are harmonizing in the choir about it “unassisted”?

        Whether its demonizing Russia, or making “heroes” of rock and roll stars, the promotion part is pretty standard. People are talking about this as if the hippie era was so special and then it ended and they don’t do that anymore.

        As to Ken Kesey, I knew him. He was an odd duck. In a way, the CIA did give him drugs. He volunteered at Stanford to be given DMT and other hallucinogens. I think that was the start of his journey.

        Other than the appearance, people are people. They were all different. He went one way and Morrison went another. Just because someone prints psychedelic artwork on your album covers doesn’t mean you’re a guru. Certainly the label had an interest in creating a myth to sell records.

        If you were a rock and roll musician at the time the label would do the same for any of them. What they personally believed may well have been another matter. Even if they were “into it”, it would be hard to know what that meant for them.

        Just like SHES, just like current events, we have “images” and narrative. These people become “characters”. Just like the current crop of yodelers strut their stuff with Illuminati/Satanic symbology, back then it was LSD and flowers.

        They are selling an image and a lifestyle because it pays. If someone else has another agenda I wouldn’t be surprised. In that regard it was not unique and it hasn’t stopped.

        Whether its fashion, movies, music or politics, they are all selling an agenda. They want followers to buy their products and their ideas. From where I sit I’d say it works.

      29. I had to go back a long way to find a “reply” button–anyway, this is in reply to several posts.

        Sue, Dave McGowan’s stuff about Manson is in his Laurel Canyon series. One of his discoveries was that Charlie Manson was a highly accomplished guitar player who used to jam with Neil Young.

        Miles Mathis says Manson is only 5’3″. He looks like this huge monster in all the photos. The photos Mathis has posted of Sharon Tate–smiling while she’s lying there dead, with her pregnant belly intact and no blood anywhere in sight–are compelling evidence of fakery. For one thing, the horrifying story we were fed by the press was that the murderers had sliced up her belly and removed the fetus.

        As for the record industry in L.A., I lived in the San Fernando Valley from 1969-71 (9th and 10th grades) and babysat for a man who promoted some rock group. I think it was “The Outsiders.” He was associated with Columbia Records. Topanga Canyon was about 3 miles away, and that’s one canyon over from Laurel (I think–didn’t check).

        “Leonard Nimoy’s Pet Pad” was on Topanga Canyon Boulevard!

        The Tate-LaBianca murders happened while I lived in the SF Valley. So did Armstrong & Aldrin’s “walk on the moon.” I agree with lophatt, and others, that everything we are told and exposed to is manipulated and engineered by the CIA.

        Who are these puppeteers, really, and why are their standards of conduct so different from those of “ordinary people”–e.g., the lessons drilled into us that we must be honest, follow the “Golden Rule,” the Ten Commandments, and all that? Guess they have engineered all those standards, as well–for OTHERS to follow, not themselves–in order to perpetuate their own power.

    3. check out this green screen video – the reason all of the victims were posing at that corner is because that was the back drop for the green screen. I don’t think the producer of that video realized at the time what he had but this , in my opinion, is huge. Only recently did I discover these

      1. the same woman with the bulky brown coat with the Sotos at the beginning is also with the McDonnell’s at the end.

        at 5:13 the box highlights the clapboards are all pasted out and completely white

  17. Quite true, James. Consequently liberal racism may be more pernicious than rightist racism, which is out in the open.

  18. The silence on all the gang killings in inner cities is stunning, but have a white person shoot a black person, and the ‘justice’ department immediately sends in the hedge men to stir up more trouble.

    Most of us heard of the manhatten project and probably assumed all the testing must of been for the public good. The experimentation of millions of soldiers and children continued into the 1970s.

    If I am reading this right, after many hearings and studies, they decided it was better not to notify the victims or their surviving family members.

    1. That is an interesting take, PS, on a kind of asymmetry of sympathy. I wonder if those in power aren’t forced to write condolence notes as it were so that they can keep seeming to be keeping order and to appear magnanimous. I believe that is part of the role of the “mommy party.” Of course all manner of past injustice is invoked whenever these events occur. But the underlying reality is that other innocent members of minorities are killed all the time, in drive-by shootings, as collateral damage, and through the general level of violent acting out through envy etc. (cf. singer Marvin Gaye’s own father killing him). Why does this not keep society in a lather until the situation changes? Perhaps because there is no need to present the idea that this is abnormal, however when a white does the killing it must be presented that way, as something off the normal range of the spectrum, so that the rest of the whites may bask in innocence and benefit from words which disown the act.

      The Watts riots arose out of a police incident (though not I think a shooting by police) but when they were done, many of the predatory businesses developed to extend credit (a furniture company for instance) were burned down. Some argued that this was the only way you could provide goods to the community – by credit that was evaded the usury laws. Others would argue that the shoddy goods were simply a come-on to tap into the existing money supply in the ghetto, from people who still had jobs in those days. I would say it was the latter, as LA had people still around with skilled jobs, but who were still living in a quasi-segregated society and had to buy locally. Soon of course, there would be a vast welfare system and not just blacks but those who preyed on them would game that.

    2. After reading about all the experimental radiation treatments going on the thru the 70’s, and centered around the hollowed John Hopkins and University of Rochester institutions, a dark memory was awakened in my early teen years.

      We didn’t much go to doctors, as there was no healthcare insurance or unlimited funds. Landed my first official job as a camp counselor and needed to provide proof of immunizations.

      My trip to the ‘family’ doctor resulted in his discovery of a goiter in my thyroid, that I never felt and the need for radiation treatment, thyroid medicine and monthly visits that mostly consisted of very thorough breast examines. After my pharmacist told me what he prescribed was going to kill me, just quit going to my monthly sessions that felt like sexual assaults.

      The symptoms of thyroid disease brought me back to another doctor in my early twenties and have been on a very high dosage that they do not make. At times, my insurance company will treat my prescription as one, if two times an existing dose works. More often than not, two different pills are required to keep me in the normal range, and thus two prescription payments.

      Guess what one of the worst results are of untreated thyroid disease is? Insanity!

  19. Sound observations, patrickchatsamiably. It seems that radio was powerful enough in its day – don’t know when it had the capability to be in every room of the house however. It seemed to have taken the place of the family fireside and indeed FDR had his “fireside chats” with the nation.

    There is currently an exhibit at the Huntington Library near Pasadena, of WWI recruitment posters. It’s quite interesting, in that the exhibit shows how the public was accustomed to the artists who made the posters, knowing them from magazine illustrations – thus the connection between mass advertising, illustrated fictional literature and the stirring up of all the emotions associated with warfare.

  20. It’s like the “Coincidences” in the Jim Jones mass murder (suicide if you “drink the Kool Aid” that the commune he found in the middle of a jungle that just also happened to have been a former CIA camp. Yep, just coincidences. Like the coincidences that the Congressman that got shot down there visiting the commune and trying to get the Jone’s people to come back home to their families just so happened to be traveling with a CIA operative that coincidentally just moved out of the way seconds before the Congressman was murdered. Just so happened to be coincidental that the same guy that moved out of the way knew how to call out on the CIA radio frequency at the commune, but wasn’t staying at the commune. Just so happened that the bodies were never autopsied, and that those who did not have a needle mark on their arms were shot dead, contrary to have been told that they all drank some koolaid laced with lethal drugs to commit suicide.

    The Jone compound were also examined by doctors daily, given drugs, and forced to stay awake and listen to days and days of “Jones Sermons” (aka brainwashing) that were all so eerily similar to the MK Ultra CIA operation. Yep! Just some coincidences I guess! Like all of the Sandy Hoaxster parents all being older than average, or just like all of the parents moving to this dump school within the 2 yrs prior to the shooting, or just like the coincidence that the media couldn’t find any so-called friend(s) or teachers of Adam Lanza, or that the parents were in the entertainment industry, or that there was no record of Adam Lanza existing, or the other hundreds of coincidences

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