Free Form Friday VII

discuss4Another unsealed debt ceiling, Nobody Died at Sandy Hook, real and unreal mass shootings, the “corporatization” of America and YOU, “crisis actor conspiracy theory,” the end of the EU?, economic apocalypse not yet …

Free Form Fridays are routinely looked to as a place for MHB readers to discuss what they wish as they please. Previous open threads over the summer and early fall have been platforms for vibrant exchanges that have garnered hundreds of comments.

Here is yet another chance to chime in with other readers on whatever pressing issue may be on your mind . Thank you for your continued interest, participation and support.-JFT

302 thoughts on “Free Form Friday VII”

  1. The House Murphy bill had 154 votes as of Wednesday. In Ireland, free speech and due process are first being attacked with ‘mental illness’ accusations, then outright repression:

    Note that the irish judge attempted to pin ‘mental illness’ on the ‘denier’ before pinning ‘firearms’ and ‘breach of peace’ charges on him. At present there is no law in Ireland criminalizing ‘holocaust denial.’

    Also of note, the prominent ‘mental health’ advocate Ted Chabasinski was seen earlier this week claiming to ‘have never heard of Elliot Rodger.’ This from the most well known California ‘consumer advocate’ and ‘legal expert.’ He asserted that in response to a question posed to him as to why the advocacy movement had failed to expose the cops’ and media’s lie about Rodger’s welfare check. If regulars recall, last summer I detailed how that psy op’s significance pivoted on the sort of sleight of reporting/rhetoric the media highlighted. They claimed (I think it was) his mother reported his videos to his psychologist, who then called the county mental health agency, who then reported him to the police. The police were said to have conducted a ‘welfare check’ which has absolutely nothing to do with a psychiatric screening. The mental health agency would not order or recommend anything but a screening; a welfare check is the mere confirmation that someone is physically alive and able to move around competently.

    California law already afforded and even obligated the cops the duty of taking Rodger into the ER, or arranging for an on site screening. The ER has the right to hold someone for three days against their will. No cop is ever allowed by law to conduct a screening.

    So the famed Chabasinski claims to know ‘nothing about it.’ How very odd for someone in his position. Some facts on him: he claims to have survived childhood imprisonment for being poor and the son of an alleged schizophrenic woman. His story includes chronic abuse (even torture) through ECT ‘treatments.’ It takes an even odder turn, however, when it found him discharged at the age of 17. Today, without a lawyer or friends/family agitating on the outside (and housing) and a ‘diagnosis’ of anything, much less schizophrenia, one is sentenced to a limitless confined ‘treatment’ in a state institution. Why would Chabasinski have been so miraculously released in the middle of the 1950’s with a schizophrenia diagnosis (the system both then and now never admits to wrongful diagnoses)? The record is foggy on his attending NYU and some city college and then a now defunct law school in California which launched the ‘legal careers’ of Tom Hayden, Angela Davis and other 60’s radicals.

    Chabasinski devoted most of his adult life, and continues to, to advocating for the rights, especially legal, of the ‘mentally ill.’ Yet he’s never challenged the process through which these ‘diagnoses’ are assigned to people, and he militantly avoids discussion, as does the entire scene of ‘advocates’ he hangs with, of the problem with the media’s portrayal of Elliot Rodger’s legal journey.

    Any thoughts?

    1. Sue,
      The case of Dermot Mulqueen is troubling, especially the court’s references to medication and “mental illness.” How incensed was that judge! He said Mulqueen was “reckless and offensive in the extreme.”

      I guess I shouldn’t be surprised; the statute says that offensive behavior is that which “is likely to cause serious offence or serious annoyance to any person who is… aware of such behaviour.” Pretty much negates political speech.

      I’m reminded of a recent interview with a couple of yahoos carried on Scoop Feed who, after loudly scoffing off “deniers,” warned everyone to cool it with questioning the Holocaust because speech construed as “anti-semitic” will be the warrant that carries you off to the FEMA camps.

      Freedom of speech is protected by the Irish constitution, provided that it’s not used to undermine “public order or morality or the authority of the State.”

      What good is it then?

    2. Sue,
      It looks like you’ve outed Chabasinski. Wonder how far back he was compromised, the 70s? This would have coincided with Kesey’s anti-institution novel “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest,” and its subsequent play and film.

      I can’t find out too much about Chabasinski other than his wiki. Has any of his self-reported bio been verified?

      Kind of hard to believe that he walked out of psychiatric institution, in which he received no education from age six to seventeen, and into college, and then on to law school and then a “leading advocate” position. The horrors he details and the abuse he says he endured would seem to preclude such agency in adulthood.

      1. Thanks for reading. It is extremely hard to believe he was just ‘discharged’ out of nowhere at 17 when even today that would be highly unlikely to happen without family or someone demanding you be let out. Back then the system didn’t have to let go of people; there was no ‘dangerous to oneself or others by dint of mental illness’ criterion, and there were no medications deemed reliable to address schizophrenia. Even as late as the 1980’s, it was often impossible to get out of a state institution for people without connections outside because most state and I’d assume federal law hold that a ‘patient’ cannot be discharged to the street. Some consumer advocates lobbied in Congress to demand that funds for housing had to be allotted for inmates in state institutions. I met a woman who was held for five years for having manic depression (she testified in Congress) even though her manic episode was brought under control fairly quickly. Once imprisoned by the state (with no due process of course) there is no way for someone to make money or secure housing. So right there Chabasinski’s story is somewhat fantastic. There is no way to verify anything he claims and he’s never proffered proof to the best of my knowledge. How would he get money to attend classes at NYU, and without a high school diploma? Supposedly he earned a GED and is purported to be a genius. His story is both logistically and psychologically implausible.

        Patrick had pointed out that the ‘drugs made him do it’ meme works indirectly to convince americans that indeed some ‘mental illness’ afflicted these shooters and that further, they need to be interned for longer periods to ‘stabilize’ them on their medications – perhaps even forever. Chabasinski’s shtick seems to fit into that strategy; he harps against abusive ‘treatments’ but never on the process through which people are labeled and often railroaded. And that is simply hard to believe given that he claims to not have schizophrenia. I’d cut him some slack for purportedly having had such a horrific and confusing childhood, but this claim to ‘have never heard’ of Elliot Rodger and his total ignoring of questions about the media’s glaring sleight of hand really impugns his authenticity. The ‘merry band’ is a couple organizations, most notably the website Mad in America which supposedly advocates for a more humane mental health system. They too completely ignore the obvious legal lie that media depiction of Rodger’s case pivoted on.

        So I’m stuck wondering what to make of him. It’s possible that the civil rights movement was both an expedient and requisite vehicle for Big Pharma’s agenda. Chabasinski helped steer ‘treatment’ towards the pharmacological, and away from a more rigorous questioning of psychiatry. I’d love to know exactly who lobbied to change the laws regarding committal/discharge thresholds iback then.. Perhaps it was impossible to repress the reform of the system, and it proved beneficial to Big Pharma to use that reform movement, for a period anyway. Were blacks institutionalized at higher rates than whites and was reform unavoidable? Another glaring problem with Chabasinski and his cohorts is that they abjectly deny that women, particularly white, were psychiatry’s chief victims going way back to Freud. Mad In America often asserts that blacks are systematically oppressed by psychiatry while denying that white women are. I was accused of being ‘bipolar’ for rejecting the advances of a black coworker, no s**t. It’s all incredibly convenient. Black male (and female) violence towards white anglo me in the public arena has been the crux of my ‘diagnosis.’

        1. Yes, as has the issue of why the new threshold for involuntary committal – and no one has acknowledged either point. They’ve also been taken to task for asserting that white women have been privileged by the psych system with similar results. Even the leader, Whitaker, has ignored that specific question when directly confronted.

          This and other feedback/intel all feed into a theory I have, which is that most of what’s going on around the Murphy bills is theater and strategy. The House one is being marked up in committee as we type. Word is that the sheer expense of shifting the burden of the price of even ‘short term’ (which for state hospitals means 45-60 days) institutionalizations onto the taxpayer via Congress-forced Medicaid reimbursement won’t pass. But it’s unclear whether the forced taxation won’t pass for that or for AOT, Assisted Outpatient Treatment, which is some kind of court-ordered treatment programming (pivoting around medication). Already 45 states’ laws allow for AOT but few resort to it, seemingly because the costs are prohibitive. Yet all of the opposition revolving around forced treatment focuses on this provision that would financially strong arm states into implementing AOT. Very little to no mention of the committal threshold is mentioned. Yet I happen to know that both Chris Murphy and Cassidy (authors of the Senate companion bill) are determined to keep Tim’s provision in the final one (theirs doesn’t mention involuntary committal threshold).

          Basically, I think that much of the theater is designed to stealthily pass the new threshold while pretending to argue over AOT, which I don’t even know can be ordered without criminal charges being adjudicated. Theoretically if one totally avoids encounters with shrinks of any kind the system couldn’t label or railroad you except for the commitment threshold change, which would eventually indirectly atrophy the other programs being debated, like substance abuse counseling, etc. Mostly this would allow the state to wield that law for political repression purposes even more than for Big Pharma/Psych’s profiteering. Even AOT happens in open court and can therefore be scrutinized and questioned.

          I just looked up some background on the deinstitutionalization movement and apparently it took off in the 1950’s, seemingly before the civil rights movement hit full momentum, so I still haven’t figured out how a Chabasinski plant would have been so necessary. Crypto jews like Judge Barbaro of Brooklyn were deployed during later decades to get out ahead and spin the labor movements of here working class italians to the greater benefit of blacks – and jews. But was Chabaskinski’s a necessary role? I don’t really know.

          All I know is he’s covering something up, as are most of the leaders of the various opposition movements, and that something is the total evisceration of due process that the proposed committal threshold augurs.

  2. ETA my first comment: Ted Chabasinski helped lead the crusade against the use of shock therapy or ECT in California. A possible theory on his disingenuous stance on Rodger is that he’s a plant, deployed to get out ahead and control the opposition. Big Pharma was already gearing up at least as early as the 1970’s to pharmacologize ‘treatment’ of ‘the mentally ill,’ even though the product, as it were, wasn’t launched till the mid-80’s. Chabasinski states at several points in his career that he doesn’t have schizophrenia, but then advocates from the standpoint of those who actually do (not just the wrongfully labeled). He seems all about ‘fair treatment,’ but never about overturning the fallacy that psychiatry is based on ‘medicine.’

    Even more important than the advent of widespread psychotropic ‘treatment’ was the advent of emotional and social problems being construed as physiological ‘diseases.’ Chabasinski and his merry band of ‘advocates’ never question the most intrinsic premise for the abuses they claim to decry – that there can be ‘medicine’ without scientific medicine. It’s an incredibly odd posture for one who was so tortured for a ‘diagnosis’ with no validity.

    1. Sue,
      Your posts prompted me to do more reading. Before I respond, I wonder if you read Caplan’s latest blogpost from yesterday about Frances and “diagnosisgate,”

      What’s your reaction and do you think I should write something about it. I had already read Steven Brill’s 15 part series on risperdal, and so was surprised (or not) that he was implicated in what looks like a cover-up.

      1. Caplan wrote a searing expose on how the authors of the DSM-V (or whichever version) fought because half of them insisted that women had some ‘disorder’ that caused them to want to be abused. While I can’t negate that some very narrow slice of people might have something like that, the offending authors were including a far broader group and literally blaming women for being raped, etc. I reported a series of sexual assaults and a stalking to a female psychiatrist (a significantly overweight, homely and intellectual straggler) who then told me I suffered from ‘masochism,’ even though I had zero dating or even much direct friendship with the assailants. They had all happened in far below average environments for women, one of which is famous. This was the start of a very long, unbelievable journey into hell. Caplan also wrote another book exposing how she and other psychology interns were forbidden from acknowledging that socio-political factors were influencing ‘patients’ emotional issues, etc. She seems pretty authentic. Depakote was the go-to drug for silencing women who’d been victims of the rapefest that high school and college were in the 1980’s and early 90’s; it had probably far worse side effects than Risperdal (I think), including infertility and Raynaud’s syndrome, etc. etc.

        That website seems to feature some okay authors and a lot of so so ones, and then some real anti-whites/white women types. I have suspicions it’s either controlled or competing op, as it were, in its leadership. Even Caplan fails to fully acknowledge that psychiatry is ALWAYS a racket since there is nothing scientific or empirical about it’s diagnosing, and since the entire ‘field’ pivots on medications. All psychiatrists are in direct cahoots with the drug companies.

        Definitely write something about that particular angle, though. I find it very interesting that women seem to ‘get’ how corrupt and bogus the whole racket is far more facilely than men. But that’s precisely because psychiatry was founded on privileging men over women. How many men want to give up the power of calling a woman who reports his aggressions against her ‘insane?’ Even those who wouldn’t do what some hardcore sicko rapist type would, thrive on the general privilege.

    2. Oh, I forgot to ask. Who exactly are Chabasinski’s “merry band of ‘advocates’?”

      The phrase reminds of Kesey’s Merry Pranksters.

  3. I thought the synthetic cloud making operation known as chemtrails or geoengineering was a NATO controlled country operation… wide spread and far reaching. However, I had no idea how far beyond NATO countries it spans to be a truly global operation. Check out the satellite photos from around the world posted by Patrick Roddie on Facebook.

    1. Derek D. Lancer – I too thought it was NATO so had wondered about images that appear to show wider coverage. The reason for my reply is specially based on your statement about “satellite photos”. I think it is of the utmost importance that everyone digs down another part of the rabbit hole to learn about the fact that we live on a flat Earth. There is literally no defense for an absurd ball earth other than blatant lies from NASA, et al. Within that realm of understanding comes the realization that satellites do not exist. I’m not sure what the unidentified objects are that for years I said were satellites moving across the sky, but I now know for sure they aren’t as I believed. For one thing, there are many, many issues with the physics of it all. One of probably hundreds of examples proving the hoax is the fact that some telecom comany now wants to put high altitude balloons spaced evenly along the 40th parallel (pretty sure that’s the location.) As with hundreds and hundreds of things were told that would make no sense on a ball Earth, the use of the balloons alone and especially their placement makes no sense unless you realize the location is ideal on a flat earth and there are no satellites (hence the need for balloons). Also, we have fiber optics and other cables streatching undersea and all across this flat plane we live on. Satellite dishes point in a steady direction where the signal is coming from. They certainly are not facing straight up at some geostationary object magically suspended in space. So I by no means am attacking you here, but I figured free form Friday was a good time to jump in with this important topic. Evey image from NASA is computer generated and satellites cannot and have never existed.

      1. Wow Greg,

        I did work for GE and Hughes. Trust me, satellites Do exist and are Very Real.

        The Balloons you mentioned are for very low orbiting satellites that I’m assuming will broadcast Low Frequency Radio Waves such as a wireless router does in most peoples and Wi-Fi Hot spots.

        You won’t need to “Point” a satellite dish at these satellites like the Geostationary ones 23,000 ,miles in space.

        Also, everything in Nature is Round.

        1. Just to clarify,

          The low orbiting satellites you mention are using balloons because they would need to have a continuous power source to sustain their position, unlike the Geosynchronous satellite at 23, 000 mile which stay in place, and hold their orbit once in position.

          I don’t really believe this low orbiting satellites idea will ever work.

          Motorola said they were going to try this 20 years ago and did.

        2. I just posted my reply to your first comment and now read that response of yours slightly differently so I’ll begin with this. So you’re saying “very low orbiting satellites” are tethered to balloons? And I assume you’re claiming in so many words that you believe those balloons are not tethered, but are floating? The balloons just float high above below the magical line somewhere under 100 miles and are attached via a cable or cables to a multi-ton satellite that is “orbiting” in space above? And if you think the balloon is tethered then wouldn’t that make those geostationary as well?

          Are you intentionally being confusing and am I being sucked in here? “I don’t really believe this low orbiting stilettos idea will ever work”. You somewhat contradict yourself here and from what I remember when reading other responses earlier you do so again.

          “Motorola said they were going to try this 20 years ago and did.” Motorola did what? Did they use balloons with bus-sized objects orbiting above them? Just stop for a moment and think how ridiculous it is to believe that a large, extremely heavy object is above a balloon. That is of course the complete opposite of what all of our own experiences have taught us. Such an idea defies logic and reason.

          And how do these balloons help them “sustain their position”? Again, if tethered then you’re contradicting yourself when you explain that geostationary satellites work differently.

        3. Let me start by stating that I don’t deny that they make something they call a satellite hear on Earth and might actually launch it into the sky. But if it is jettisoned out of sight in a laughable joke of a shuttle or on a rocket it is most definitely coming down out of sight along with the rest of the load. Safety in case of a failed launch isn’t the only reason they only do so at the coast. Not to mention it seems most launches I’ve seen footage of arc off at quite and angle.

          And let’s not forget about extreme compartmentalization and secrecy when NASA is involved. You’d have to be a total fool to believe we landed on the Moon. Does that mean that all of those who have worked at unbelievably corrupt companies like NASA, JPL and others in the field were dishonest? Of course not. From everything Ive learned it makes complete sense to me that there could have been people working on the mission from Johnson Space Center who were just as fooled as the majority of the public. Then again now that I see how many people can be involved in hoaxes such as Sandy Hook and The Boston Bombing it would not surprise me to learn the entire building was filled with sellouts.

          Various parts of alleged spacecraft are manufactured in different cities across the country and are often states away from the launch zone or control station. A crew working on a satellite would not have to know all of the details of the building of the rocket. And you working for companies who build satellites has absolutely no bearing on the issue. And your position there, which you didn’t mention, would be a factor, as well as whether or not you are a Freemason, for example. I worked on the Web site at a local TV station until shortly after I began my awakening. That does’t mean that all of so-called news I posted online was factual or that I am evil if not. Though there are certainly some I’d never trust, there were fellow employees whom I had no reason to ever believe were knowingly involved in a conspiracy and they were typing in coordinates for different satellites at different times. In reality that doesn’t mean the device adjusted for the signal had to be receiving its data from space. And because the engineer was taught that and believed that is what was happening far, far out of sight does not mean the signal had to have been coming from 100 miles above where your mythical “low orbiting satellites” supposedly remain. They can’t and don’t exist. They would fall to Earth if somehow they reached that elevation. There is no magical line you cross after a certain number of feet below 100 miles where things begin to essentially float. I don’t believe the satanic liars have ever even tried to give us a fake number for such a distance.

          I can’t believe someone on this thought-provoking, informative site could be so vapid! My jaw dropped when I saw your closing comment. “Also, everything in Nature is Round.” What? Are you round? Assuming you’re referring to the flat Earth there, who ever said the Earth wasn’t round? I am not certain of this, but it seems to me at this point that the flat Earth likely is round. By the way, that is no way conceding the preposterous statement that everything in nature is such.

      2. Greg,it would be fairly easy to prove(or disprove) a “flat earth”…simply fly all the way over the South Pole,due south. If you can’t pass over it and begin a due North heading,it is flat…otherwise….

        1. Ray, there are countless ways to prove the flat Earth and literally zero to prove a ball earth. Same goes with whether we are stationary vs. spinning. What you brought up is one of the many points that help prove the flat Earth. There has never been a flight that has traveled around the alleged globe in that direction. All pilots who have supposedly traveled around a ball Earth were heading east or west. Not that I’m claiming this one thing makes it cased close (which it is), but for a good laugh just get on Google Earth and try to find the South Pole.

          In reality Antarctica surrounds the Earth. The logo we’ve all seen on the UN flag is exactly a flat Earth map! And many theorize that the wreath around the map, which is cut into 33 sections, represents Antarctica. Again, just another of hundreds of points that help lead to the logical conclusion that we’ve been lied to on a grand scale.

          Have hundreds of millions of dollars and want to explore the area? Good luck! You could be fought off with military might, fined, imprisoned, etc. thanks to 53 nations now signed on to the Antarctic Treaty System. It’s off limits.

          There is no South Pole.

        2. This is beyond absurd and into the obscene. I earned my Ph.D. in the history and philosophy of science. The theory of a flat Earth was not even rational in the time of the pre-Socratic philosophers. Every other celestial object is spherical. So Earth should be the exception? We have masts of ships disappearing as they sail out to sea, we have pilots and passengers looking down on Earth, where the horizon displays curvature as every experience pilot can attest. We have satellite images of Earth, which of course show a round Earth–technically, an oblate spheroid (or a round object that is thicker at the middle). We have all kinds of proof that the standards of American education have been slipping, but this is for doofuses and nitwits. For some classic studies that review the history of astronomy and physics, see I.B. Cohen, THE BIRTH OF A NEW PHYSICS and Thomas Kuhn, THE COPERNICAN REVOLUTION. In 240 B.C., Eratosthenes was the first to calculate the circumference of Earth. To support a flat Earth, you must jettison physics & astronomy.

        3. You have to admit, the flat earth and non-spinning earth people can make a good argument for someone who never has really contemplated these things.

          Many people never think of the stars, universe or the oceans.

          It’s a great study and well worth your time if science fascinates you.

          Everything is spinning, moving and round, it’s amazing whats happening while people walk out in front cars Texting on their IPhones….

        4. I’m surprised and at the same time not so shocked to see this reply from you, Jim. We share many common beliefs, have spoken long ago on the phone and had been on a number of conference calls together. The first thing I remember really bothering me about you take on things was when you spoke of the absurd idea that they used holograms to fake the planes that allegedly crashed into the Towers on September 11. I have no doubt you’ve seen a lot of information on the topic and to leave with that expressed belief makes no sense coming from an educated man who knows how to think in so many other ways. I do not mean to take this in another direction, but will add that the planes were computer generated, which is very easily proven with the footage we were shown.

          Anyway, you having a Ph.D. in anything means little to those who can see. We know that what is in the history books from the community colleges to the Ivy League schools of long ago was littered with lies as part of the massive mind control program that has been committed against Mankind for a very, very long time. To know the lies well doesn’t help your credibility. There’s a reason they call it “degrees” because it’s degrees of indoctrination. If one is fully indoctrinated upon graduating from Harvard, for example, they’d have a much better chance of being a player in the sadistic game of trying to control the thoughts of the masses.

          “Every other celestial object is spherical”? Says who? Have you seen that with your own eyes or even with the aid of a powerful telescope or is it possible the only time images of that have come from NASA and the like? Please find me one image online anywhere that proves your claim that doesn’t come from such masonic organizations. And did you learn in school that because a number of things are one way that all are that way? And you claim to be rational! How about the alleged galaxies they show you and you accept as real? Aren’t they always flat? I’m going to take it up a notch and ask you to find me images of the Moon from all across this flat Earth and show me any difference in the face other than a rotation. Please, Dr. Fetzer, show me proof that the Moon is a sphere. Do I sound nuts? Of course! Because we’ve been conditioned for generations to not trust our own eyes and believe their masonic lies. Unlike these alleged spherical planets the Moon can be easily observed with our own eyes. As has been photographed and we have all seen with our own eyes you can even see right through the Moon at times. Stars have been seen though it and we can often see the blue sky through the opaque body as well. And regularly you can see a hint of a light ring around the side that isn’t lit. Again, find me any photo or video out of the endless supply online that depicts anything but the exact same face of the Moon. No matter where you are on Earth you will see the same face. It spins, but that is it. The Moon is its own light source and if you understand physics as you claim then you’ll know that light can’t reflect off of such a convex surface as we’re told the Moon does with sunlight. The lights are completely different temperatures with almost completely opposite qualities easily measured on Earth. Trust your eyes or some freemasons who created the storyline and told you it’s crazy to believe anyone else? Clearly you take statements over imperial data.

          I guess the time has come to seriously doubt your honesty and credibility Jim. I gave you the benefit of the doubt with the insane hologram theory, but with this one reply of yours alarms are ringing loudly.

          You continue with more nonsense with no basis in reality when you make the claim that there are “masts of ships disappearing as the sail out to sea”. That has been disproven countless times and the only video I’ve seen try to refute it is an old one from the University of California, if I remember correctly, in which their manipulation is very evident as they try to fake the effect. You need a serious lesson in perspective! If you’re watching a ship with your eyes it will seem to go out of sight. Then use binoculars and it will come back into sight, hull and all. After it is no longer visible through that glass move to a telescope and again the entire ship will ‘resurface’. Take a look at Eric Dubai’s list of “200 Proofs Earth is Not a Spinning Ball” and you’ll see a lot of example of people seeing objects much, much father away than should be possible on a ball Earth. One of oh so many examples is seeing the Chicago skyline across the lake from Michigan. On a ball Earth the buildings should be 2,400 feet below the horizon! Explain that one with your Ph.D., common sense or otherwise!

          In the same sentence you follow with a bold lie that pilots and passengers clearly see a horizon that splays curvature. As before, please, Jim, please, show me one photo or video from the endless supply online that show such a sight. As everyone knows the horizon always rises with the eye as we go higher. If you were flying at 35,000 feet above a ball Earth I don’t think you’d see any land below. No matter what elevation the horizon is always there at the same level to your eye. A fact you cannot disprove. I can’t believe you state such blatant falsehoods. Everyone who hasn’t thought about this and does when they fly next will know immediately that you’re full of it.

          Oh my. Again with satellites. They don’t exist, Fetzer. And for one thing, if we’ve been taking images of the Earth since Apollo 17 and have more than 20,000 satellites magically orbiting out there then why do they so often recycle the same photo from 1972 to present day? There is always cloud cover and the shapes of continents are often very different from one alleged photo to the next. NASA is so bold as to post video of an allegedly spinning ball Earth where the clouds don’t move at all! I would love to hear your explanation for that or the change in continents’ shapes and sized. We should have an unbelievable amount of incredible high resolution photos of Earth if the fairy tale you believe in (or present to believe in) is true. For a good laugh go pick up an astronomy magazine and see how many photos from space or of Earth they actually show –in an astronomy magazine! Any alleged space photos are usually admitted to be made with the help of computers. For some reason NASA can’t just take a photo of Earth; they have to stitch together “bands of imagery” for us.

          I can’t believe you are actually so foolish as to continue to destroy yourself with your words when you commit to the ludicrous idea that the ball Earth is actually oblique as scumbags like Neil Degrasse Tyson want the dumbed-down public to believe. What a laughable claim! If you believe in the imagery from NASA then how in the *&^% can you say you believe it is oblique? All of their photos and video show a perfectly round body? I said laughable, but it’s actually sickening. It’s important for the activist community to know who they can trust and can’t from the realm of those with a big platform in the so-called alternative world. The more you typed the more you blew your cover. You can’t have it both ways. Either you believe the photos and videos or you believe it’s oblique. Or you can come to your senses and realize those are both lies.

          So all celestial objects are spheres? And because of that the Earth must be too? That’s logical (cough cough). Then how about we use your same reasoning and say that because “the standards of American education have been slipping” that all that is taught must be fallible? Sure that’s not a good argument just like everything you’ve written.

          So there was a first to give us a figure for the circumference of the Earth and therefore it must be round? A Ph.D. that speaks like an uneducated first grader.

          There is literally no evidence whatsoever to support the masonic lie that we are living on a ball Earth where water magically acts differently than in all other instances, objects can hang upside down, etc.

          Out of all of your nonsense, there is one thing I partial agree with you on. That is that to believe in the flat Earth we must jettison astronomy. I only partially agree because we must do away with modern-day masonic astronomy. Physics is on my side and every single observation man has ever experienced points to a flat Earth. You parroting total lies doesn’t make it so.

          I’ll be adding Jim Fetzer to my ever-growning list of those who are too smart, have been digging down the rabbit hole for too long and have been in communication with too many thinkers for me to think that they really believe the baseless claims they spew forth.

          I’ll close this by asking you again, Jim, please send me a link to any photo or video that proves your case. I’d bet my life you can’t find one.

        5. You are a complete and total waste of humanity! My Ph.D. in the history and the philosophy of science matters because the history of science is dominated by the history of astronomy and physics. I asked before what is your background and education to be promoting such utter rubbish. I ask again: Who are you to be playing the troll with claims about Earth that were discredited already by 240 BC by Eratosthenses of Cyrene:

          g”Eratosthenes of Cyrene (/ɛrəˈtɒsθəniːz/; Greek: Ἐρατοσθένης, IPA: [eratostʰénɛːs]; c. 276 BC[1] – c. 195/194 BC[2]) was a Greek mathematician, geographer, poet, astronomer, and music theorist. He was a man of learning, becoming the chief librarian at the Library of Alexandria. He invented the discipline of geography, including the terminology used today.[3]

          “He is best known for being the first person to calculate the circumference of the Earth, which he did by applying a measuring system using stadia, which was a standard unit of measure during that time period. His calculation was remarkably accurate. He was also the first to calculate the tilt of the Earth’s axis (again with remarkable accuracy). Additionally, he may have accurately calculated the distance from the Earth to the Sun and invented the leap day.[4] He created the first map of the world incorporating parallels and meridians, based on the available geographical knowledge of the era”

          You must be the most gullible sap I have encountered in decades. That you know nothing about science, astronomy or physics makes it all the less surprising that you know nothing about my work on 9/11, which you grotesquely misrepresent. On the contrary, I have been among the most outspoken about the fact that none of the 9/11 planes crashed and that what witnesses took to be “planes” in New York appear to have been holograms. Here are some of my publications and presentations:

          “Planes/No planes and ‘video fakery'”

          “The Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference, Part 2”

          “The 9/11 Crash Sites with Major General Albert Stubblebine, USA (ret.)”

          “9/11: Who was responsible and why with Dennis Cimino”

          You are too intelligent to believe the rubbish you are peddling, especially about a flat Earth. Have you told us what is supposed to be holding it up? In ancient times, it was supposed to be resting on the back of a turtle, who was in turn on the back of an elephant. One joke about it has it that from there it was elephants all the way down! If you can’t see the absurdity of your position, you must be mentally impaired; but you seem to be too intelligent for that, which tells me you are some bizarre kinds of op. You have no place posting here or on any other public web site. If I were James, I would ban you permanently. You are a blight on his blog.

        6. I thank Greg for bringing up a topic that I find interesting. I have spent a few hours investigating it and don’t hold a firm opinion either way. There is plenty out there on the subject that is compelling, and worth looking at. When people rush to insults to try to kill a topic, those people lose credibility with me. If you are touting your academic background as justification for your opinion, I would say you don’t really know your audience here. Rob Skiba has put together some interesting stuff at, Eric Dubay, and many others. Greg, you are well-spoken, have obviously read a lot on topic, and defend your position well.

        7. Apparently you believe that less informed and more ignorant opinions are preferable, which displays the absurdity of your position. The point I was making is that those who have appropriate backgrounds, education and research degrees are not going to be taken in by indefensible trash like this. What “interests you” is a subjective phenomenon; astronomy and physics are not. The history of science and astronomy is factual.

          You seem to confound fallacious appeals to authority with non-fallacious. Fallacious appeals occur when someone who is not an expert on a topic is cites as though they were: Rolf,the barber, says that its easy to have babies and women who moan and complain are just sissies! As opposed to students of the history of physics and astronomy who report: The flat Earth theory has been indefensible at least since 240 BC.

          But you can believe whatever you want. I have been stunned by the number of those like you who are willing to fall for any fantastic theory, not matter how ill-founded, and are glad to discard the history of science and the conclusions of astronomers and physicists who have studied these subjects. You have no idea what a fool you are. Defending Greg is conclusive evidence that you haven’t a clue about any of this.

        8. What an unpleasant display you make of yourself, Dr. Fetzer.

          How can you say “Apparently you believe that less informed and more ignorant opinions are preferable”? In saying that it is YOU who evidence “the absurdity of your position.” You are not open to the possibility that people who investigate this topic present compelling evidence. Which willingness, I take it, you normally regard as your stock in trade.

          “The point I was making is that those who have appropriate backgrounds, education and research degrees are not going to be taken in…” You, a logician, employ here the logical fallacy of “appeal to authority.” You destroy your own authority by doing so. Can you recognize that?

          “…by indefensible trash like this.” If you were to examine the argument, which is as I say compelling, and very difficult to answer from the conventional point of view, this statement of yours would embarrass you.Indeed, it makes you sound like a believer in the official 9/11 story who has never examined any of the evidence. You really do yourself no kindness in this. Too bad you can’t take it back.

          “What “interests you” is a subjective phenomenon; astronomy and physics are not. The history of science and astronomy is factual.” This is exactly the formulation climate scientists have disgraced themselves with by circling the wagons around the egregious fraud Michael Mann and his ridiculous lie, the so-called “hockey stick” graph. As Mark Steyn has demonstrated so ably, (almost) all the scientists in the field are now exposed as being very regretful that they played along with Mann’s hoax. The book, a compilation, is perfectly titled: A disgrace to the Profession. Careful there, Doctor.

          “You seem to confound fallacious appeals to authority with non-fallacious.” Ah, but it is YOU who are confounded, here.

          “Fallacious appeals occur when someone who is not an expert on a topic is cites as though they were: Rolf,the barber, says that its easy to have babies and women who moan and complain are just sissies! As opposed to students of the history of physics and astronomy who report: The flat Earth theory has been indefensible at least since 240 BC.” You constantly claim to be an expert logician, and have no self-awareness, apparently, of the utter lack of logic here. No one has ever been to the objects we perceive in the sky. Almost no one has ever observed those lights in the sky through a powerful telescope, and only those in the last century or so. All we know is what we are told about these things. People observe the movements of the lights in the sky, and calculate. They come to conclusions, hypotheses, theories. Routinely, these are replaced. It’s called “science”: it is never “settled.”

          “I have been stunned by the number of those like you who are willing to fall for any fantastic theory, not matter how ill-founded,” Well, I’m delighted to know about your emotional reaction, Dr. Fetzer. It almost makes me want to know more about your emotional life. Except that this is not a “fantastic” theory, and it is anything but “ill-founded.” The evidence that supports it is incredibly compelling. It demands examination.

          “…and are glad to discard the history of science and the conclusions of astronomers and physicists who have studied these subjects.” All scientists worth their salt are dedicated to just that premise, my good Doctor. Let the evidential chips fall where they may, tradition be damned.

          “You have no idea what a fool you are.” Oh, no. you shouldn’t have said that, Dr. Fetzer.

          “Defending Greg is conclusive evidence that you haven’t a clue about any of this.” That, neither.

        9. There is nothing to be said for ridiculous beliefs refuted before the birth of Christ. You appear to be one of the purveyors of disinformation. There is now reason for tolerance for intellectual rubbish–and that you are going out of your way to defend the indefensible makes you another of the phonies and frauds that are posting about this. What are you for: elephants all the way down? It makes me angry when the lunatics are running the asylum. Trying to turn your ignorance against me is simply grotesque.

        10. Here’s an idea, Dr. Fetzer: if anyone, anywhere, could see an object 60 miles away (and it’s been done countless times), would you be willing to explain that?

          Or is simply asking the question, how did you say it, ah, yes, “grotesque”?

          Scientists test theories. That’s in the nature of being a scientist. The theory in question, today, right here, is that we live on a sphere, spinning a thousand miles an hour. Stupid people (forgive me if that sounds insulting) just believe what they are told. Smart people ask if they are being lied to (that’s the chief object of education, after all–to be able to detect when we’re been lied to)

          If someone comes along with what seems to be a preposterous theory about a lie “everyone” knows to be a truth, what do you do? What if he gives you an easy challenge to test it? What if someone can see an object the official model says has to be thousands of feet below the horizon–and can prove it?

          I’ll tell you what a stupid person would do: ignore the challenge.

          How about you?

        11. There is no challenge in refuting hypotheses that were refuted 1,000s of years ago. What is stupid is for someone like you to be promoting such complete nonsense. Every other celestial object is spherical. Why would Earth be an exception? Our planet is one among a cluster surrounding the Sun, which is located in an obscure corner of the galaxy known as The Milky Way. And what, pray tell, would keep a flat Earth in place? As I observed, a theory advanced before the Birth of Christ had it that a flat Earth was supported on the back of turtle. And that the turtle was on the back of an elephant. And when asked about the elephant, he replied it was elephants all the way down! What conceivable merit derives from ignoramuses like you and Greg demonstrating you have no idea what you are talking about? You are both as despicable as you are ignorant

        12. This “Greg” moron reminds me of that long-winded psyop named ‘apsterian” who constantly plagues the board on your site, Jim. We’d all do well to just never respond to this inanity. Not fun to know at least a part of the taxes we pay go toward the pay packets of these aholez…

        13. WordPress, right now, is displaying one of its weird quirks. I have tried to reply to Dr. Fetzer perhaps a dozen times with what follows. I tried to alter the first few characters. I went to the top. Finally, last time, it told me “I tried to post that already.” Well, yea. I did. Duh.

          The spam folder is now brimming with my attempts. Here we try again:

          It is, for a start, a great privilege to find myself once again engaged in a back-and-forth with the esteemed professor, Dr. Fetzer. What fun!

          Here is the good doctor’s insightful, and collegial, not to say delightful insights about my simple question (that is, “Here’s an idea, Dr. Fetzer: if anyone, anywhere, could see an object 60 miles away (and it’s been done countless times), would you be willing to explain that?”):

          “There is no challenge in refuting hypotheses that were refuted 1,000s of years ago. What is stupid is for someone like you to be promoting such complete nonsense. Every other celestial object is spherical. Why would Earth be an exception? Our planet is one among a cluster surrounding the Sun, which is located in an obscure corner of the galaxy known as The Milky Way. And what, pray tell, would keep a flat Earth in place? As I observed, a theory advanced before the Birth of Christ had it that a flat Earth was supported on the back of turtle. And that the turtle was on the back of an elephant. And when asked about the elephant, he replied it was elephants all the way down! What conceivable merit derives from ignoramuses like you and Greg demonstrating you have no idea what you are talking about? You are both as despicable as you are ignorant”

          Delightful! How I wish I was one of the swells invited to the faculty cocktail parties the corpulent professor attended back in the day! What fun his careful discourse must have been, as he disquisitioned on intriguing ideas the stray underling lecturer might ask him about.

          Such a judicious man. Such a worthy opponent. It is not often that a Great Man decrees about me “You are both as despicable as you are ignorant.” This is indeed an honor. From the grammar, my ignorance is established, and my despicableness rides on top of it, with pride of place.

          Thank you, dear sir. I shall carry this award with pride.

          Oh, and if you would, answer the question. I’m just an ignoramus, after all. Enlighten me–on just that one little foolish dilemma this empty mind confronts! PLEASE! Tell me how all those people can see below the horizon! PLEASE! TELL ME!


        14. What is the point? As I have previously observed, relatively small areas of large spherical objects have properties virtually indistinguishable from flat surfaces. I believe if you review my comments with care that in fact I already replied to this. I spent 35 years teaching students logic, critical thinking and scientific reasoning. And when I encounter such ignorant, unscientific and even illiterate positions advanced by someone who is abusing their intelligence, it infuriates me. You are either a buffoon or a reprehensible human being. And I make no apology for calling you out. It is an insult and a waste of time to be debating issues resolved as long ago as 240 BC as though they remained viable hypotheses. I have no respect for you at all. In my opinion, you are a complete waste of time.

        15. “You are either a buffoon or a reprehensible human being. And I make no apology for calling you out. It is an insult and a waste of time to be debating issues resolved as long ago as 240 BC as though they remained viable hypotheses. I have no respect for you at all. In my opinion, you are a complete waste of time.”

          You have such a way with words, Dr. Fetzer. I’m truly chastened. Either a buffoon or a reprehensible human being. I can’t see the point of going on living, since such a great man pronounces no other possibilities about my nature/character.

          Meanwhile, back in the real world, Sofia had a group discussion about the subject. You know Sofia personally, dear Professor, and I believe you do not pronounce the dualistic summation (either a buffoon or a reprehensible human being) about HER.

          Listen to her podcast conversation with three Flat Earth converts and get back to me (maybe, afterwards, you can offer me a third possibility and I can hold out some hope that will keep me off the suicide watch list):

          Maybe you will conclude that Sofia and her friends are just as much a waste of your time as I am. Let me know.

          With all deference, I am your servant,


        1. CE,
          So was I about the flat earth. But, I studied it and conclude it’s round without writing a page essay.

          The better question I studied is: Does the Earth really spin.
          Very interesting study.

          Many have questioned “if I can jump up in air for an hour, why don’t I wind up in New York if the world is spinning a 1000MPH?”

          “If the world is spinning 1000MPH west to east, why does it take longger to fly to LA from New York than LA to New York?”

          Check it for yourself. There’s plenty of material

        2. Ahh the Flat Earth non-sense. Clever psy-op. Designed to waste people’s time and generally discredit the alt/truth community.

          My favorite; “Well yes the other planets that we can observe, are spinning and are clearly spherical… but the Earth is flat.”

          And at the end of the day what difference does it make if it’s a sphere or flat? It’s still a closed system. But all the same I sure hope the Tortoise knows where it’s going!

          The ‘air’ is essentially a invisible light liquid, it is not ‘nothing’. That is why there is wind resistance, and how planes fly by riding on it. The atmosphere is part of the planet’s ecosystem mass and hence is moving with the rotation of the planet.

        3. Ahh the non-sensical reply of those less informed and trapped in the mainstream truth movement led by those the are supposedly struggling against. What discredits any so-called alternative community are those like Kevin who spatter out tired diatribes such as stating that the flat Earth discussion is a “psy-op”.

          I agree that the following statement you claim is your “favorite” is rather silly. “Well yes the other planets that we can observe, are spinning and are clearly spherical… but the Earth is flat.” But the joke is on you and whomever would make such a statement. What we now call planets were known as wandering stars for many hundreds of years longer than this relatively recent masonic hoax has been going on. If you want to discuss what “we can observe” then you’ll soon realize that the the only images you can see with your own eyes and a telescope don’t prove or disprove alleged planets are spherical or spinning. I guess NASA’s computer generated images have been shoved down our throats for so long that you’ve accepted them as your own observations. Such malleable minds Humans have.

          I’m more inclined to believe planets are celestial bodies like stars, which if you look at with a zoom lens you’ll see are not spherical bodies as you believe. They flicker as they cycle through a rainbow of colors. Eric Dubay recently posted a good video on this.

          You ask “what difference does it make”? The answer is too long even for my long responses, but it is of the utmost importance. If you don’t know how to think and learn it might not seem important. For one thing proving the flat Earth is absolute proof that NASA didn’t only lie about a Moon landing, but has done nothing but lie about everything. I want all globes out of classrooms. It seems you don’t mind being played for a fool?

          Whoever said air is “nothing”? You make no point and in no way have discredited the flat Earth theory. And no, planes don’t “fly by riding on” an “invisible light liquid”. Where did you get that idea? Engines in a sense pull themselves through the air. The air is more dense higher up so a passenger jet, for example, can travel at 500 mph at 35,000 feet, but can’t go nearly as fast at 100 feet elevation where there air is much less dense and there is less to pull through the jets.

          “The atmosphere is part of the planet ecosystem mass”. What in the ____? I am well aware of this absurd claim by those trying to defend the ball Earth. The fact that clouds often travel opposite of the alleged spin is one of an insurmountable list proofs that you’re wrong. There are many other points that can shatter your perceived reality.

          The ball Earth, the heliocentric model, planets we can travel to and much, much more are all part of a huge, sick, atheistic lie.

        4. “The fact that clouds often travel opposite of the alleged spin is one of an insurmountable list proofs that you’re wrong” Really?

          I won’t even address this nonsense.

        5. Ric, you leave me confused again. Though as I’ve already covered, maybe that’s the point. Just as no one awakens to the lies of the September 11 false flag and later changes their mind, there is no way someone can truly be “about the flat earth” and later return to being a believer in a ball planet and in the heleocentric model.

          Yeah, let’s “spin” the discussion away from the truth I shared. The “interesting study” you refer to is another factor when understanding the lies we’ve been told and the reality many are awakening to. I agree with your closing line on this posting. “Check it for yourself.” And when people research that angle of the research they’ll see that we are on a flat, motionless plane. Flight facts of all sorts help prove the case.

        6. Great posting, CE! I owe a lot to Eric Dubay. He passes the litmus tests on so many levels. I highly recommend that people who are new to the topic and are curious open their eyes and ears to what he has to offer.

        7. Greg, your losing me?
          I’ve told people it’s good study for someone to make up their own mind which most won’t even bother.

          Mixing Believing 911 was a false flag is akin to buying the flat, non-spinning earth is absurd.

          I know 911 was a inside job and I know the earth Is Round and we are spinning.

          Is that Clear?

        8. PS. All of Eric Dubay arguments are False and fall flat.

          As I said, they sound good and “logical” but are untrue. Railroad track would have to drop 8″ a mile if the world was round. Really?

          The Rivers flow argument and the Horizon one too..Please.

        9. What is your education and background, Ric? Someone has to be just a bit off the rails to be defending a theory that has been indefensible since before the birth of Christ. I am truly dumfounded that you are making a string of assertions for a provably false claim. Tell me more about you.

        10. Ric, you clearly didn’t get my comparison. I’m sure you’d agree that no one who broke through the lies of the official September 11 story ever goes back to believing the general government/media story of that tragic day. The same goes for those who awaken to the flat Earth. There is no going back.

          What is clear is that you can’t think for yourself. Please explain to me even one way that you or anyone on Earth has ever experience, in any way including sight, that we are spinning. Same goes with the idea we live on a ball Earth. You can type statements all day, but those like me with the facts are the only ones who can’t point out evidence to support our theory.

        11. “All of Eric Dubay arguments are False and fall flat.” Please, Ric, point to one thing on the page linked here from Eric Dubay that is false.
          Good luck trying.

          You believe in a ball Earth and I assume you believe the 25,000 mile circumference lie they tell us. Simple trigonometry will give the the number of inches the Earth dips per mile. I guess you are arguing against yourself here again. Just like a shill posing nonsense such as asking for explanation without explaining what you want explained. “The Rivers flow argument and the Horizon one too..Please.” What?

        12. “What is clear is that you can’t think for yourself. Please explain to me even one way that you or anyone on Earth has ever experience, in any way including sight, that we are spinning. Same goes with the idea we live on a ball Earth”

          Greg, you answered your own question.

          Can YOU explain your position?


          I’m not going to regress to 7th grade science.

          The arguments are compelling from a lay mans perspective.

          Thats why I said “its an interesting argument, check it out yourself.”

          I spent hours re-learning all my science class. Listened to many scholars and MIT grads. It was very interesting.

          I have and conclude I disagree and would waste so much time going over this old ground. it’s the 21st century not the 16th.

          I don’t care if you believe the world is flat and not spinning.

          Now, we must assume that the Moon,Sun and Stars all evolve around Us?


        13. All I know is Nasa lies! Flat, round or concave is up for debate.. Something is being hidden from us, judging from the comments this forum might not be open minded enough for this discussion.

        14. We all know that Ben. but the earth is flat is not one of them?

          Lophatt hits it on the head. Just ask why? whats the point?.

          And yes they all do lie. No one here is Naive.

          They pick their lies very carefully.

          This argument is designed for you to get lost in a new rabbit hole or waste 5 hours of your time researching their arguments and come full circle you’ve been trolled.

          Some don’t survive. That’s why they do it.

        15. I fully agree Ben that “this forum might not be open minded enough for this discussion”.

          There are a number of sites I visit and I really like a lot of what James Tacey has to share and have seen a lot of great comments. This is not a site that discusses the fact that Israel was the main orchestrator of the September 11 attack. It’s not a site that encourages discussion of the lies surrounding the so-called holocaust. And among many other things it’s not, it isn’t a flat Earth site. It is an informative, thought-provoking blog that I have really appreciated. Because of the nature of topics discussed here and the fact that the biggest lies are still as taboo as 9/11 truth was in 2003, many who read the pages here regularly haven’t dug deep enough or are possibly suffering from cognitive dissonance.

          Because I respect this forum so much and am clearly so passionate about the biggest hoaxes in history I just woke up to this year, I took time to write in hopes of encouraging some others to look into it.

        16. Greg says:
          “Because I respect this forum so much and am clearly so passionate about the biggest hoaxes in history I just woke up to this year,”

          Now listen. slow down and learn.

      3. Greg, I consider myself to be open-minded, and generally am willing to question just about anything that “everybody knows”, such as that the earth is round. But I’ve been on scores of long-distance plane flights, mostly from the US over the Atlantic or the Pacific, and the routes flown were always consistent with the “Great Circle” idea of a spherical globe. In addition, the periods of light and darkness were as would be expected with a spherical globe. I know because I generally look out the window during the entire flight, which is a lot of looking on a 16-hour flight. I never sleep, except for the odd hour when it’s pitch black outside.

        I saw in one Flat Earth website a “proof” offered that flights from Chile to Australia in fact fly over Montana, which route happened to be consistent with the flat earth map they were using. This simply isn’t true. The flights I’ve tracked using several tracking programs fly over the Pacific and stay in the southern hemisphere.

        If you have information about plane flights you can use to support your flat earth theory, I would love to hear it. Otherwise, I’ll believe my own experience.

        1. It really hard for people wrap their head around the fact that even a grounded plane is going a1000mph. If it is heads west or east at 200mph it Really is only moving 200 miles an hour in either direction so it appears the world doesn’t spin.

        2. I can’t really talk to much about this subject because last time my family tried to inform the masses the Catholic Church executed all my family…Haha

        3. Really? I’ll have to look that up in my missal. As to the speed of travel you mentioned, I suppose the answer would be “relative to what?”. The ground? Space?

          I have read some of these arguments myself for the “flat Earther’s”. Some of them ask some pretty compelling questions. I don’t have answers for them all. But, just because I can’t answer all their questions that doesn’t make the Earth flat.

          The biggest problem I have with it (and there are many others), is “why would ‘they’ lie to us about it?”. What would the advantage be to trick us all into thinking that we lived on a sphere when it was really flat?

          If you consider all of the various elements that depend on a spherical earth that’s a lot of “trickery” for no apparent payoff.

          I suppose this may be one of the unintended consequences of lying. When the government lies about virtually everything, is it really so surprising that, eventually, someone comes to a point where they actually question a basic tenet of physics?

          When politicians lie a smart person refuses to listen to them. When scientists lie (think global warming), the result can lead to something similar.

          I’m all for questioning everything. But, in doing that a certain amount of logic should be utilized. We would be the only celestial body that looked like “pancake world”. What keeps those (that?) ocean(s) from flinging off into space, Antarctica? For that matter, what keeps Antarctica from sliding off into the void like topping on an ice cream cone?

        4. “Pancake World”..Haha

          I agree. but it does explain what happened to Amelia Earhart.

          No One told her when you see all the ships stuck against the Ice Barriers that keep the Oceans from draining into space,” make a hard right.”

          She flew off the end into sad.

        5. Well, I have a lot of other candidates. I suppose all we have to do is get them to Antarctica and let gravity do the rest.

        6. They’ve got Antarctica handled.

          They use the UN flat map of the world which of course includes Antarctica but puts it Topside somewhere else. (see typical flat map).

          I’m curious whats underneath our pancake world now.

          Augers from fracking and drilling for oil coming out the other side if they drill too deep? Pyramids? Underside Alien Bases? AHHHHH

          I jest.

        7. Lophatt, because you don’t understand their reason for a lie doesn’t mean it isn’t a lie. That is not the way to learn or think! It is all part of an atheistic lie to cover up where we came from. The lies exist for other elated reasons too. They want us to believe we are very, very insignificant with countless universes and galaxies out there (there aren’t). They want you to believe that an explosion (Big Bang) actually created everything. Creating one complex protein from an explosion would be laughable, much less everything on Earth and beyond. They are hiding intelligent design. There are many satanic (or however you choose to label them) individuals who want to rule over the masses with their occult beliefs. Please keep in mind that nowhere did I say they are covering up Christianity or any other religion. I am not a religious person myself, but I am most definitely not an atheist! I can’t help but post another link to a posting from Eric Dubay that helps shatter the Evolution lie.

          Like others you say that we “would be the only celestial body that looked like ‘pancake world’.” I have more to learn about what is above, but I do believe you are basing that on what you’ve been told and what we’ve been shown in fake images from NASA and the like. Take a closer look at stars and you’ll be surprised to see they aren’t as you’ve been thinking.

          Good question about the oceans. Yes, I believe it is Antarctica that keeps the waters on the plane. And I can only assume at this point that Antarctica might drip off the sides if it wasn’t frozen. I have no clue how far out that frozen land mass extends outwards, but I have discarded my previous thought that it could be an infinite plane. Movement of stars was an obstacle in that now shed belief I held briefly.

          Again, not understanding their reasons for a lie doesn’t make it true.

          Those in my family and old friends who are clueless to reality would ask the same question about Sandy Hook and I’m assuming everyone here knows that was a completely scripted hoax. Their lack of knowledge and understanding has no effect on reality.

          You’re right that it is “a lot of ‘trickery’,” but it isn’t without reason and there is a great payoff to the satanic scum who control the minds of most all of the masses, at least in the U.S.

        8. I realize I’ve typed a lot here today and will likely be called out again for spamming as someone did today. But I am passionate about this and I guess the compulsive side wanted to address all comments before calling it a night. I will end on this note before hitting the sack. I couldn’t resist taking on this one last related lie… “gravity”!

          Lophatt wrote that they “suppose all we have to do is get them to Antarctica and let gravity do the rest.”

          Well, Lophatt, gravity does not exist and is only part of the incredibly huge lie. Gravity has never been proven in any way. If gravity were real and powerful enough to keep massive objects weighted down then small flying insects would not be able to fly. If it held the seas down then the fish would struggle to swim without being brought to the bottom.

          From Eric Dubay: “And how is it that the magic velcro of gravity is strong enough to drag miles of Earth’s atmosphere along, but weak enough to allow little bugs, birds, clouds and planes to travel freely unabated in any direction?”

          Another from Dubay: “Objects denser than the medium surrounding them rise while objects less dense than the medium surrounding them fall. This property of natural physics was well known and understood long before knighted Freemason “Sir” Isaac Newton came along and piggy-backed his “gravity” on so he could explain why people don’t fall off the underside of his spinning ball-Earth.”

          Good night all. Time for bed on this stationary, flat Earth. Until the Sun moves closer in the morning I hope to dream of a world of people who have broken free from the masonic chains that are destroying all that is good.

        9. Greg, I haven’t ridiculed you or called you names. I’ve had a little fun with this, as is my wont. You won’t find a more open minded bunch,this side of the asylum, than here.

          I do think you need to reexamine your thoughts on gravity, fish and insects. All we really have are explanations for things that are largely unseeable. We use the explanations to make things work for us.

          If someone comes along with a better explanation for something I’ll certainly give a listen. I said that what I had read on the subject was fascinating. That’s not the same thing as saying “I’m a believer”.

          As your argument shows, once one accepts this conclusion, it is necessary to begin a process of negation, in order to maintain it. So, “gravity” doesn’t work with the flat earth theory so…., we eliminate it.

          The next phase seems to be regarding observed phenomena as mere optical illusion. I confess that I’m struggling with the concept that somehow, this is a masonic plot of some sort.

          My advise would be to suspend arriving at conclusions and focus on the interesting questions. Patrick’s question is a particularly good one. It may not “prove” the earth to be flat, but spherical earth theory doesn’t answer his question. Those are the things I find interesting about it.

        10. Alberta, you are so wrong about the light and darkness being as expected on a ball Earth. In fact it only makes sense on a flat Earth with the Sun and Moon circling above our stationary plane. For one thing day and night would be completely opposite every six months if we were on a ball Earth spinning around the sun. We were taught nothing but lies and clearly from your posting and others it is very common for people to not trust their eyes and instead believe what they are told to believe as true, even when it has no basis in reality.

          You say you will “believe [your] own experience”. Stop and think about that. You have never experienced a ball Earth. Once you understand the flat Earth and how the Sun and Earth move above what you see out of the window, flight times, refueling locations and more will really start to make logical sense and all you believed up until now related to this topic will be a sick memory.

          I will again link to Eric Dubay’s list of “200 Proofs Earth is Not a Spinning Ball”.
          Just search “flight” and you’ll jump to some great explanations that can’t be denied and are clear pointers to us living on a flat plane.

          I am glad you’re “open-minded” and willing to look further into this. I have no doubt you will appreciate the information and awakening if you take some time with it. All the best on the journey.

        11. Greg, please stick to the facts, in stead of impugning my observation skills: do you have long-haul plane proof or don’t you? What does the flat earth map look like? (Please provide link) Looking at that, we should be able to predict roughly how long planes should take to get from a to b, and what their approximate routes would be. Then, we’ll poll people who have actually flown to and from these locations, and ask them the route and the time it took.

          If you don’t have plane data, please don’t dispute those of us who DO have it. And don’t accuse my observation skills of being faulty. Shooting the messenger is too obvious a ploy. Provide your airplane proof, and link up a map we can use!

          (Hey guys, does this mean Greg has “won” because he got us to waste so much time on this? Is he a troll-in-training, trying to earn his stripes before he mixes it up on the really controversial stuff?)

        12. There’s only ONE REASON azzh01ez like “Greg” troll boards like this with miles-long posts about utter nonsense so easily disproved, and that’s to make it difficult and frustrating to s-s-c-c-c-r-r-r-o-l-l-l through his long-winded bee-ess and get to the actual matters at hand. Simple disruption and distraction, well-known technique. Ignore this fool.

      4. Greg, if you’re not a shill, you are a “useful idiot”. Yes, NASA has iled to the world, but NASA didn’t discover that the world was a globe, and there any number of ways to prove the Earth is a three-dimensional globe. There many ways to prove that your shallow observations are not true, and there any number of ways to show that you are muddying the waters for independent investigators to paint the “false flag” of “Flat Earthers” upon intelligent and understanding people doing good work. I, for one, would appreciate if you would stop Stop STOP posting your inane nonsense here and anywhere else on the web.

        People, even though this idea has gone viral on the web, it is completely baseless, and is a DISTRACTION from serious investigation and serious investigators of salient facts that people should know.

        Do I have to start posting the actual facts and evidence to disprove this obvious sham?

        1. Yup, some evidence would help, un-useful idiot. Good luck with that, THX! I will check back to see your brilliant response tomorrow. I won’t hold my breath. So there are “any number of ways to prove the Earth is a three-dimensional globe”? Let’s hear one. Just one.

          And the whining is hysterical. “Stop, stop, stop”! Ha! Is it that tough to scroll past it? Fools like you only make my argument all the stronger. I post links and state undeniable facts and have all empirical data on my side. You, on the other hand, like so many others, offer nothing at all but your childish rants and claims that are backed with nothing.

          Let’s see those proofs! 😛

        2. There is new software program that instills flat earth theory. It is not very successful but does take away bandwidth.


          UPDATED JULY 2015 REDDIT r/worldnews GROUP

          The goal of this group is to combat anti-semitic and anti-Israel comments and posts on Reddit, specifically in r/Worldnews, which is an extreme anti-israel subreddit.

          We will be posting individual links to the subreddit in the Skype Group and will tell you the name of a post. But if you see any posts about anything concerning Israel/Palestine, go ahead and vote on it yourself.

          If you to to r/worldnews and go to “new” you can see all the recently submitted posts. Downvote anything anti-israel immediately, so it doesn’t get to the front page and make sure to alert the skype group.

          Important: DONT ever go to a thread with a direct link. Always go to the subreddit and go to “new” or “rising” and put the name of the post. Reddit may not count the votes that come from direct links. We will only post the page and the name of the post.

          Users to upvote: These users are generally combating anti-semitism anti-Israel propaganda and should be upvoted. These are the good guys.

        3. THX, I’d say don’t waste your time. Greg may have won this one by causing this diversion. I think it is normal that we all try to help along our benighted brothers who are struggling along at a lower level. Speaking for myself, ex-liberals seem to want to extend a helping hand even to people who should be helping themselves, but Greg is obviously not in need of help, because he is not asking questions, but making silly assertions. I say he’s just a diversionary tactic, maybe lone wolf, but maybe part of a larger organization.

          If it is true that he’s part of an organization, say an organization tasked with studying how people who use the internet respond to controversial theories, possibly with a view to learning how to shut down discussion, then studying flat-earthers could be very useful for us. Unfortunately the only way to see them in action is to engage with them, which takes our time.

        4. It would be nice if someone that believes the earth is a spinning wobbling ball flying through space staying perfectly aligned with Polaris if they could actually provide a single piece of proof of it rather than always saying there are numerous ways to prove it. Do you have just one?

      5. Just take your time-wasting flat-earther bv11sh!t elsewhere, “Greg”. We know what you are and why you’re here. Getting more than a nickel-a-post nowadays, apparently…

        1. I’ll repeat Dr. Fetzer’s comment after reading your response to his post rightly ridiculing this time-wasting, energy-sucking flat-earther horsemanure, Patrick…you are too intelligent to believe or defend this nonsense. Dr. Fetzer is leagues above you in this non-issue for thinking people.
          I don’t know why you do it, but it is sheer distraction from truly important matters, and I’m now doubting the sincerity and intentions of your other posts on various matters.
          Your credibility is evaporating fast. Nor will I be arguing this twaddle with you in another post, either, and I hope no one else will respond to this intentional effort to divide and conquer by the agents of disinformation, which I will now forever consider you to be.

        2. Good job, Patrick. I understood your intent was to call into question Professor Fetzer’s communication and self-reflection skills, to which you remained focused. It wasn’t about how well-established an idea is or was time wasted on ridiculous notions. It was about who was making statements in factual terms and communicating fairly and in recognition of the other party(s) status as equals.

          If I so much as say “Hi” to someone who has been connected to FE then people will question my party loyalty. Have you ever known someone with an anger issue? I see similarities here with opponents of FE. They get angry and frustrated as if they might reveal their true value system. I can imagine how a highly credentialed person or designated wise elder might wish others to concede to their authority but not have to admit they feel the entitlement.

          Greg received very little recognition for the considerable volume of commentary he appears to have written exclusively here. So, for it to be intended as a distraction seems an unwarranted accusation if that commentary is largely sound. I didn’t note anything particularly foolish or misleading. In Professor Fetzer’s first response to Greg he first appealed to authority then listed 3 or 4 highly disputed points as beings facts.

          I get the sense after admiring Professor Fetzer for years that, if a dark truth involving Earth being unlike anything as yet imagined is found in some cave and informs us of exactly who the liers have been, he may not be willing to choose truth over authority.

        3. Thank you, Derrick. Just so.

          This is not the first time I have noticed that Dr. Fetzer, who styles himself an expert logician, demonstrates that he is precisely the opposite–and he does it with blustering, bombastic bravado. In instances like this he makes a fool of himself, and can’t detect it.

          Too bad, really, because it definitely detracts from the many worthwhile contributions he can be credited with.

          As for your observations regarding how any effort to look into what all the fuss is about, concerning investigating the Flat Earth research, you should definitely listen to Sofia’s conversation with three FE chums of hers–linked to by me in a different thread, above. They talk about just those points. It instigates irrationality every time. I wonder why this is such a predictable generator of intense emotion.

          Your final point is an interesting one. He definitely does make one suspect that’s what would happen. But then again, he HAS demonstrated on at least one occasion an ability to change his mind on a controversial subject from instinctively reacting as the belligerent, bullying, belittling big shot to open acceptance: the Paul is dead theory. Some years ago, on his show, he ranted and scoffed for a couple of hours (I think it was the whole show, but it was years ago and memory can be not quite perfect), with his typical know-it-all bravado, that it’s impossible, and anyone who investigates it is a moron–or worse. Then, in the last year or so, he interviewed Tina Foster ( about it, having become a full-fledged convert some time in the past (in the interview, he gives no acknowledgement of how abusive he used to be to the likes of Tina, incidentally). It was almost a fawning display (she presents it as a blog post–just flip through the archives if you’re interested).

          So there’s that.

        4. Do you regularly make up complete rubbish like this–or am I a “special case” for you? I suppose anyone who takes “flat Earth theory” seriously in 2015 is beyond salvation. I am very receptive to my featured guests, whether or not I always agree with them. I had featured Clare Kuehn on Paul several times when I was a skeptic; and you would be hard pressed to show any abuse. I was skeptical until I discovered the work of the two Italian scientists in Wired Italia, which established (based upon objective comparisons) that we were dealing with two different people with regard to their teeth, their palates, the shape and size of their skulls, and their ears. That left no doubt about it. And when I published AND I SUPPOSE WE DIDN’T GO TO THE MOON, EITHER? (2015), I included their work as a chapter of the book. I have dealt with many students in my day and I find you among the most deceitful and deceptive. You are a dishonest person who is willing to employ elementary fallacies, including the ad hominem, to defend your position, even when you are provably wrong. I like this post because it displays rather blatantly what you are all about.

        5. For any of you who are tempted to revert to primitive times in thinking about Earth as flat, here is the introduction to “Flat Earth” on Wikipedia:

          Flat Earth
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          (Redirected from Flat Earth Theory)
          For other uses, see Flat Earth (disambiguation).

          The Flammarion engraving (1888) depicts a traveler who arrives at the edge of a flat Earth and sticks his head through the firmament.
          The flat Earth model is an archaic conception of the Earth’s shape as a plane or disk. Many ancient cultures subscribed to a flat Earth cosmography, including Greece until the classical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD) and China until the 17th century. That paradigm was also typically held in the aboriginal cultures of the Americas, and the notion of a flat Earth domed by the firmament in the shape of an inverted bowl is common in pre-scientific societies.[1]

          The idea of a spherical Earth appeared in Greek philosophy with Pythagoras (6th century BC), although most Pre-Socratics retained the flat Earth model. Aristotle accepted the spherical shape of the Earth on empirical grounds around 330 BC, and knowledge of the spherical Earth gradually began to spread beyond the Hellenistic world from then on.[2][3][4][5]

          The universe of the biblical ancient Israelites was made up of a flat disc-shaped earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below.[6] In Hellenistic times (after around 330 BC), this was widely replaced by the Greek concept of a spherical earth suspended in space at the center of a number of concentric heavens.[6] The mistaken notion that medieval Christians thought the Earth is flat has been referred to as the myth of the flat Earth, or “the Flat Error”.[7] Since the 20th century the consensus among historians of science has been that medieval Europeans, with rare exception, put little confidence in a flat Earth model.[7]

          There is much more. Consult other sources, including your parent and your teachers–anyone you respect. If you are in high school, talk to your physics or science teachers. If you are in college, ask a professor in the physics or astronomy department what they think about the “new vogue” of interest in “flat Earth theory”. Get back with what you learn from them.

        6. Yippie! More feathers in my cap! (I’m collecting your characterizations of me.)

          First time out, I “appear to be one of the purveyors of disinformation…going out of [my] way to defend the indefensible…another of the phonies and frauds….Trying to turn [my] ignorance against [you] is simply grotesque.”

          I must say, I didn’t think you could top yourself in analyzing me, but to my delight, you did, next round: “ignoramuses like you [that would be me!]…have no idea what you are talking about….You are as despicable as you are ignorant.”

          Next, I was “either a buffoon or a reprehensible human being.”

          Now, I’m “among the most deceitful and deceptive” students you have taught (and to think, this was after “35 years teaching students logic, critical thinking and scientific reasoning”). And as a bonus, I am also “a dishonest person”! Wow! My heart simply swells with pride. Top of the list in your long and distinguished career! Whoopee!

          When I consider that I have become a case study of yours, that you have chosen me to be a demonstration of how a great logician analyzes an opponent’s reasoning, I’m truly humbled.

          What’s more, we now learn that Wiki is where we go to learn whats true! I did not know that. Ignoramus that I am, I thought it was untrustworthy, a tool of the New World Order to mislead us about alternative theories. But then, I’m a phony, a fraud, deceitful and deceptive. Oh, and dishonest, too.

          Now that your kind, generous, no-charge personal analysis is complete, and I have thanked you sufficiently abundantly, the question arises:

          Have you listened to Sofia’s podcast yet? Perhaps it might contain some stuff your Great And Powerful Oz (Wiki) failed to mention. (Hint: it does. In spades.)

          Also, please note that I have not defended the concept of the Flat Earth at any point in this conversation. I defended Greg, a man you know well, from your belligerent abusiveness. Then, when you started subjecting ME to your crude thuggery, I shifted to the defense of the idea that no topics are ever “off limits,” and that “science” is never “settled.” When smart, polite, engaging people suggest one look into what seems a crazy theory, and when they are a friend, one’s first reaction should not be to pull out the brass knuckles and beat the poor fella unconscious.

          But then, I’m not a famous logician, who has taught the subject in University for 35 years. I’m just a duplicitous ignoramus.

          Well, Sofia thinks it’s better to listen, and explore, in situations like this. She’s a friend of yours, too. Get back to me after you listen to her chat. I can’t wait. I see a Tina Foster-type transformation in your tea leaves, Dr. Fetzer. Or was it chicken entrails. Tarot cards? Vicious-attacker-turned-purring-kitty-cat.

          Oh well.

          Have a nice day. Please do that, professor.

          And listen to the podcast. She’s going to be on your show, soon. I dearly wish to hear you two talk about that conversation, and what we should make of the ideas these guys have been developing.

        7. James Henry Fetzer
          I recommend the use of Ptolemy’s measurement of the size of the earth as a nice proof. To recapitulate, the deep wells functioned as sufficiently accurate angular discriminators, so you intuitively understand that the earth must be curved between the two locations he visited.

        8. Excellent suggestion. I am dumbfounded that some here appear to be PROUD OF THEIR IGNORANCE. I think they ought to announce to one and all, friends and family, that the Earth is flat! That ought to win them a lot of plaudits. I know the standards of education have been slipping in the US, but for ignorance of this degree to be displayed on the blog of James Tracy in 2015 has undermined my confidence in the young.

        9. I was apart of this in the beginning and simply stated “it’s an interesting study” only because it is mind boggling and fun to try to wrap your head around the fact we are round and spinning.

          Go re-investigate the moon and why it appears we only see one side. Fascinating. All simple science from when we were kids.

          This has gotten out of control.

          I know your argument is “Greg” has a right to an opinion which is correct, but many people here instantly rejected the flat earth fantasy harshly.

          I agree, but you(Pat) singled out Fetzer. Maybe a good Foe?

          Anyways, I like you Pat and we have never had a Roe here, but. Flat Earth is equivalent to infrared Lizard People running the Govt.

          I get the gist of the argument but it just went too far.

          You certainly don’t believe the world is flat and the universe revolves around us.. I know you don’t…So I won’t even ask you to clarify.

        10. Once again, I reiterate, that I have not here defended the Flat Earth, whatever the esteemed professor Fetzer might intimate. I have defended those who advocate looking into it, which is what anyone who believes in science would naturally do.

          And I call out the esteemed professor, once again: listen to your dear friend Sofia’s interview, and discuss it on your upcoming interview with her. Do not choose to remain ignorant, Dr. Fetzer. Choose knowledge.

          On that day, when you chat with her, if you have not listened to the podcast, you will look to all the world like a pompous ass. A fool. Everyone will be waiting.

          Swagger and bluster can only take you so far, sir.

          Good luck in choosing.

  4. Global Research, where James publishes, printed a review of a book which illuminates how we come to live under an American power system that rules by power delusion. It is a biography of Allen Dulles, the first civilian head of the CIA, who led it for a decade largely in the 1950’s. The book is THE DEVIL’S CHESSBOARD by a media journo, David Talbot, which explains how the financial oligarchy was linked to the violence organs through the CIA, resulting in our low intensity wars and in the current imposition of a police state domestically.

    John Foster Dulles, Allen’s older brother, was head of a legal firm that served the financial oligarchy, including the informal head of it J. P. Morgan whose influence died during ww 2, to be succeeded by Rockefeller. Truman founded the CIA as an intelligence unit, but Dulles turned it into a para-war unit, fighting Atheistic Communism. Truman was really pissed about this, complained publically, but could do nothing about it. The CIA was intended to serve as a weapon of the president, but with its links to the oligarchy, had the power to implement its own ideas, including assassinations, conspiracies, and wars.

    This is how it happened that a ‘Deep’ or secret form of governance rivaled the president and Elected government, and how the American people lost all control over American power. The money of the oligarchy could finance the Elected candidates, the ownership of the corporate media could mold American public opinion, and the Dirty Tricks of the CIA could eliminate domestic and foreign opposition.

    You won’t read a more significant article than this one this year.

  5. I am reading your Timeline chapter in the newly released book, NOBODY DIED AT SANDY HOOK, IT WASN’T A MASSCRE IT WAS A FEMA DRILL. Thank you for putting that lengthy timeline together and the quotes from the children and adults are all so absurd. For instance a neighbor living on the block behind Nancy Lanza saying “Nancy had a special interest in Christmas lights” when Nancy didn’t even have a single strand of lights inside or outside of her home 11 days before Christmas. I am guessing the people chosen to make public statements were just told to say something, anything to give these fake characters identity. Kids seeing bullets ” whiz by” it’s just so ridiculous, it really is insulting for the Feds and CT State Police to think we are all so stupid as to believe one word of this bs!

    1. Kelley, it is very insulting that this absurd piece of cheap fiction was proffered up to the American public as a real event. What I can’t seem to get my mind around is that a majority of the people believed it three years ago and they continue to believe it today. I have no doubt the criminal MSM will keep on keeping on with their lies about this fake event, subjecting all of us to endless memorials and reminders year after year, just like they have with 911. I think the SHES event is somewhat of a Mini-Me of 911. The folks that pulled off these and many other impossible-to-believe events are laughing about how stupid the public is to believe it.

    2. It’s not a matter of stupidity, Kelly. Most people don’t pay much attention to public affairs, so they exist on the margin of people’s consciousness. They read the headlines, maybe scan the news, and go on to the next item. All the headlines say that a whole bunch of kids were killed, so that is what people believe. What else can they think, that all the media outlets are lying to them? Why on earth would they do that? Only crazy people think things like that!

      I originally thought that all those kids were killed. It was only after viewing Robbie Parker’s acting stint calling for contributions that I was startled into exploring it further. Perhaps this is a form of stupidity, but I don’t think so, I think it is a natural reaction of anyone.

      You have to have a reasonable explanation why all the media outlets would deceive the population in this way. And luckily we have media critics who are honest, courageous and talented enough to provide one. But you cannot blame the general person for being deceived by the media of a gigantic power system which fosters such deception. One can only patiently explain over years how and why this is done.

      1. Exactly folktruther. For the ones who exclusively get their info from MSM… if all you hear is lies sold as truth, then all the ‘truth’ you know is lies. It’s not that their stupid, just deeply deceived. As we all were, and frankly still are.

        It was Parker’s press conference (walking to the microphones laughing it up, then turning on the tears), and Wayne Carver’s entire press conference, but in particular his “I hope this doesn’t all come crashing down on your heads” comment that sealed it for me.

        I’m becoming convinced that many people don’t believe or are suspicious but do not say anything, mostly from fear.

        1. precisely, Kevin. There is the Proclaimed or Pretend truth that the media sells, serving the interests of the power structure, and this Pretend truth is defended by intimidating people to make them afraid of questioning it. It’s not a question of intelligence so much as conditioning by delusion and fear.

  6. South central Montana, you conceited citadel of spooks in “the last best place” I’m calling you out.

    From a thread on geoengineering watch dot org re billboards exposing geoengineering (

    [Susan] We need a billboard here in Billings Montana asking what the ………heck all the gwen towers are doing in and around Billings, Montana?
    There are a ton of gwen towers in the Billings area as well as along the highways going toward Laural and Hardin and other more rural areas as well. There are also towers near the refinery.
    Additionally, Billings is supposed to be building a larger airport starting in 2016.
    The spraying goes on here in Billings on a daily basis. Some days the skies are overcast with spray, while other days we have sunshine, but it usually gets gray in the afternoon. But people I talk with still are not awake. Others still, may know but don’t say anything.

    Dane responds: Hello Susan, we are researching the tower proliferation, and the massive amounts of power use they wired for.

    Horsegirl at length: Susan, I was born/raised in south central Montana and we constantly went to Billings to see extended family. I may be stating the obvious but have you noticed how many utterly whacked-out people cluster around the inner Billings periphery of the hospital complexes? Montana is the locus to some of the weirdest stuff on earth. I have sound reason to believe Operation Paperclip Nazi science fugitives were provided new papers/IDs and worked/work in the Billings medical juggernaut. Billings has been a mecca for human experimentation for decades. I’m even writing a book concerning the issue. The region is beyond berserk. A fulcrum of that history is the erstwhile Northern Pacific Railroad (NP) locomotive repair center in Livingston which is the midway point between Seattle and the Twin Cities. The only one between those two points, it was a strategic national asset. In 1954 a strike significantly coordinated out of Livingston shut down first the NP Railroad from the Twin Cities to Seattle, thus a domino effect on all other lines nationwide, for at that time transportation was done by railroad not trucking. The union effectively stopped national transportation and commerce cold. After that Livingston – and Billings and other railroad communities – swarmed with black shiny shoes and seethed with mercenary railroad politics. From then on in Livingston, no locals were ever again hired as teachers, brought in as medical or other administrative personnel. This was a major milestone in the corporate overlords stealing the railroad system from the public, quashing much more efficient railroad transportation in favor of trucking in a push to ever burn more oil. Livingston’s history represents an extremely important step in that process beyond the scope of my comment here.

    Livingston is your prototype Sandy Hook, full of people all miraculously hired from somewhere else out of state. Full to the brim with spooks and their infidel associates. To top themselves, a few decades later the Church Universal and Triumphant (CUT) bought out Forbes’ ranch on the northern border of Yellowstone Park some 50 miles south of Livingston, bought up about a quarter of the real estate in the then economically winnowed Livingston post railroad merger to launder the influx of thousands of members “called home” worldwide by Elizabeth Claire Prophet in preparation for Armageddon and nuclear war with Russia. The CUT built the world’s largest state-of-the-art fallout shelter at the threshhold of Yellowstone (red flag here – all kinds of subterranean construction was done up Paradise Valley in the name of “fallout shelters”). Mind you, they were “allowed” to carry out massive construction next to the very protected Yellowstone River in a climate whereby ranchers had petty bureaucrats crawling up and down their backs for minor modifications of fencing and irrigation – representing the advent of a whole lot of deep underground excavations along the same drainage). CUT almost went Waco, resulting in an international media circus during the late ’80’s. I have every reason to believe in retrospect that the CUT epoch was a colossal dark achievement in mass mind control, an MK Ultra on steroids probably engineered in part out of Billings. And this is just to inform you of things you can look up.

    I personally interviewed Jerome Weisner, science advisor for Eisenhower and Kennedy while doing an internship at MIT. Weisner’s eyes popped out when I told him I was from Montana. He said go home and tell them they are ground zero because at the time 90% of the nation’s nuclear warheads were there. Montana is still said to be the fourth largest nuclear power on earth. There is a reason the top brass of the bankster cabal cluster around Yellowstone. Kissinger’s hole is right upstream from you in GreyCliff under the name of James Johnson the Bilderberger. Tom Brokaw and numerous “household name” movie stars planted themselves south of Big Timber, and a huge cadre of media whores invade the general area who no doubt double as spooks – all those writers in “the last best place” with so few Pulitzer nominations… hmm. In the 90’s Redford, the elite media apparatchuk, was dispatched to make two movies in the vicinity (Horse Whisperer and A River Runs Through It) and the land rush was on. This was during the high times of the wolves-in-Yellowstone-Park boondoggle, a massive land and power grab from the agrarian communities flanking the park. Which did no good for wolves – Yellowstone is an outsized zoo, and the result has been thriving wolves decimating the herds of deer and elk to a nearly final degree. The globalists gobbled up all that land as a result of a national psy-up teaching the public to identify with wolves, poor wolves (Canada is so full of them they had a bounty on them, the second largest country on earth – and here come Americans paying a million dollars each for a few dozen – Canada laughed its butt off for they were in no danger of extinction) – teaching the public to say “good feds, wolf lovers, bad ranchers, wolf killers…” A huge land grab ensued. The dark side of which was a secret dispatch ot legions of military affiliates to relocate to the Bitterroot Valley in particular. Bill Gates’ Armageddon hideout is up the Gallatin Canyon outside Bozeman. Rumsfeld’s Madison River area ranch is near Ennis (you can google that one) and his son is said to live in Livingston. On the other side of the Yellowstone volcano you have Cheney, Goldman Sachs, the Fed, the Rockefellers, the Vanderbilts, the Whitneys and the Saudi billionaire oil boys between Jackson and Cody.. The Fed meets in Jackson where I believe many also reside. Did I forget to mention Ted Turner in Big Sky? When the president returned from the 2009 summit in Mexico with the Mexican and Canadian heads of state – a wealth of chatter about [ahem] global warming and climate change – he went straight to Teddy and Billy to have a buffalo burger. Flew directly from Mexico to Bozeman to talk with his handlers. That’s when I knew for sure his job description was carrier pigeon.

    All my life I heard people boast of one day harnessing the power of Yellowstone’s magma, from which it is possible to power scalar weapons. There’s a reason they’re clustering where they do. There are more beautiful areas, certainly more habitable ones, but there’s something on with Yellowstone. Is there anywhere else worldwide that all these reptiles are known to dwell as permanent residents? Which is why Wyoming has no personal income tax – the richest fraudsters call it home. Cheney’s daughter makes noises about running for Wyoming governor. Like Dante’s inferno. Bingo, there they all roost. Who among the guilty is absent? As if they were jeering at God, toeing up to the inferno’s edge, saying “we won’t burn, even the new pope decrees that Hell is but figurative.” I imagine the Rockefellers’ Yellowstone residence probably sports an elevator swooshing them down into the heart of the D.U.M.B. matrix. Recently a Russian general seemed to taunt them all, threatening to detonate a nuclear weapon over Yellowstone, did you see that? The politics of which speak volumes. As for those GWEN towers, once I saw a map of TIs (targeted individuals) in a Jesse Ventura presentation. Montana had hands down more .such cases than anywhere – wildly disproportionate to population. Plenty of use for those GWEN towers. I could go on and on but thanks for posting this, Susan, And Dane, go for it, look into that creepy vicinity. FWIW Livingston is the first place I ever saw definitely geoengineered HAARP style clouds, although I had no idea as to the man-made nature of them at the time. I have photos if you want them. This was about 1978, producing such bizarre coloration and light that people literally came out of stores and businesses into the street to marvel. The greater Yellowstone region is where the deal will go down, mark my words

    1. Horsegirl, thanks. Very informative and nicely written. Sounds like you’ve gotten more than your allotted dose there. Trust me, you are not alone.

      I see things in strange places. I’ve seen guys in suits and brand new shiny SUV’s out in (literally) the middle of nowhere in Eastern Oregon. Anyone who’s traveled through there will get a sense of what I mean.

      Lot’s of cars, small low building, where did they all go?

  7. Re. Sandy Hook timeline:

    This video provides a conclusive time stamp for the helicopter footage of the Sandy Hook firehouse.

  8. If the 28 pages ever get into court they will unravel into 9/11 Truth. Several individuals, and their families, trying to accomplish this have been attacked by police with murderous intent, and yet persist. You may be interested in the documents to be viewed at: . Click on TEXT and be patient—363 pp.

  9. Chapman 2015 Survey American Fears

    Very interesting. The #1 Fear… Government Corruption @ 58%.

    #2 Cyber terrorism (45%)
    #4 Terrorist Attack (44%)

    #3 – Corporate Tracking personal information (45%)
    #5 – Government Tracking personal information (41%)

    And just where do you think fear of ‘Mass Shooting’ falls…?

    #56 (16%) (However ‘Fear of Gun Control’ is 11th @ 37%)

    So all that effort, all these staged shooting events… curious what others think about these numbers.

    If you want to dive deeper;

    You can DL the questionnaire and see the questions and responses.

  10. I see that Wolfgang Halbig has a couple of updates on RENSE.COM today. Keep on trucking, Wolf. You got them on the run.

      1. lophatt, what you’re pointing out got my attention too. Is it a misprint that Monty Python is his attorney? Those dates can’t all be Internet errors.

        1. I don’t know Anne. Like Will Rogers said “all I know is what I read in the papers”. He has a propensity for losing focus so it is possible that his mind was elsewhere when he wrote that.

          As to the dates, I’ve never before seen such a collection. If they are all true it would be excellent support for the contention that the drill was planned for earlier date.

          The rest is too scattered to know whether it is intended as a FOIA request or just “venting”. He’s been posting a lot on Rense lately. I was thinking of emailing Jeff and asking if he knows what’s going on.

    1. US and allies policy in Syria is pure destruction, a Divide and Ruin policy. The idea is to partition up Syria into statelets, allowing US and Israel to rule. US, etc Pretend to fight ISIL while actually fighting Syria. 250 thousand killed so far, and hundreds of thousands deprived of their homes and homeland. A repeat of the Afghanistan war, with the US recruiting terrorists from all over the world, and paying them to overthrow Syria in ‘Regime Change. But the object is to dismember Syria, creating chaos as occurred in Libya.

      In doing so Washington has allied with the two most oppressive regimes in the world, Saudi Arabia and apartheid Israel. With the object of simply to bleed Syria. While the West fragments; Britain cozying up to China and Germany to Russia. And Obama just trying to run out the clock, not losing militarily until he can turn the whole mess over to somebody else. The situation is really quite horrible, the bloodshed and gore continuing with no end in sight.

      1. Washington has just begun to openly put troops into Syria. The Pretense is that they are going to fight ISIL while actually partitioning up Syria in various zones to fragment the country.

        Once you put troops in a battle situation, it is very difficult to take them back out. Withdrawal in military terms is defeat. No civilian leader wants to be held accountable for the defeat, so they pass on war to their successors. That is why the Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now the Syrian war lasts so long.

        These wars are instigated by the violence organs of both the military and CIA who are linked to the American oligarchy. They don’t want to lose a hopeless war, so they instigate attack to drag it out. Obama is keeping troops in Afghanistan, and Iraq, and now putting troops in Syria.
        The horror keeps increasing, shielded from public recognition by the media.

        1. ISIS Releases Video Of Alleged Russian Airplane Mid-Air Explosion After It Claims Responsibility For Disaster

          “Whether or not the video is real or staged like many of ISIS’ previous “made in Hollywood” productions, is currently unknown.

          Of course, it’s the same ISIS which a recently leaked CIA report revealed as being created by the CIA as a “tool” to overthrow Syria’s Assad.

          In other words, a proxy organization of US “shadow government destabilizing operations”, trained in U.S. ally Turkey, and openly funded by both U.S. allies Saudi Arabiaand Qatar, just took down a Russian plane.

          The question now is did ISIS use a US-made surface-to-air missile to start what may be a very unpleasant war.

          Also, does Russia get a carte blanche to begin attacks on ISIS in Egypt now, the same Egypt which recently “purchased” the two Mistral ships made by France, which were meant to be bought by Russia in a deal that was scrapped in the last minute due to NATO intervention?

          One thing is clear: if the Russian population had any qualms about continuing the campaign in Syria, they were just eliminated in perpetuity.

          We now await the Russian response, against both ISIS and its direct and indirect sponsors. ”

        2. what a good post, Ric, quite different from your other good posts. It must be because it’s Halloween and you’ve grown a new head to celebrate the occasion.

        3. Pretty early to say. The pictures show a failed vertical stabilizer that is folded like a seam failed. They say it had a bad landing once before and was repaired. It hit tail first.

          The tail section is separated from the rest by quite a distance. That would create a dive.

          We’ll wait and see. They have the boxes.

  11. ENOUGH of the “Flat Earth” trolling already. It’s pure vile nonsense to attempt to discredit serious inquiry by those intelligent enough to see into the various false flags/hoaxes, and to discourage those new to the truth-in-media movement who are still confused/afraid/unenlightened.
    And it matters NOT AT ALL in the search for actionable evidence of fraud committed by the government and its media accomplices.
    TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. I hear CW WADE is in love with this, ahem, theory…

    1. A simple inquiry and short study into physical science that any high schooler should already know disproves this “theory” in minutes. It seems to be well-funded, has already been mentioned by Obummer in a speech, and has gone viral. It is a program to throw mud on anyone seriously investigating the myriad false narratives being thrown at the public by all manner of government, church, and other corporate interests.

      1. I have this funny habit of trusting my own eyes more than graphs and statistics. One evening on a Southern California beach (Playa del Rey) we were watching a beautiful sunset. It was one of those rare days when the sprayers had taken time off and we could see forever westward. The ocean ended far away not in a straight line, but in a curved one. Well, I thought, that certainly proves the earth is round. This was long before the modern day flat earth people surfaced.

        What about Admiral Byrd and his journey to Antarctica:

        ~Among the discoveries made during the 1946-47 expedition was the sighting of two “oases,” one a region of ice-free lakes and land. More than 300,000 square miles of unpathed territory were charted on aerial mapping operations. Their observations proved that radical changes would have to be made on existing maps of the Antarctic.” Why would warm spots, with warm water exist in the Antarctic? What does this mean?~

        I have a copy of Admiral Byrd’s Diary. Excerpt:

        March 11, 1947
        I have just attended a staff meeting at the Pentagon. I have stated fully my discovery and the message from the Master.

        All is duly recorded. The President has been advised. I am now detained for several hours (six hours, thirty- nine minutes, to be exact.) I am interviewed intently by Top Security Forces and a medical team. It was an ordeal!!!!

        I am placed under strict control via the national security provisions of this United States of America. I am ORDERED TO REMAIN SILENT IN REGARD TO ALL THAT I HAVE LEARNED, ON THE BEHALF OF HUMANITY!!! Incredible!

        I am reminded that I am a military man and I must obey orders.

        1. Anne, it IS interesting. My favorite is the pole star. One of the theorists uses the oft used photo with Polaris centered in a time-lapse photo. All the other stars blur and shift but Polaris is always dead center. How is this possible if the Earth is tilted on its axis?

          It would mean that Polaris, as far away as it is, would have to perfectly follow the elliptical path of the Earth’s polar axis. Pretty unlikely.

          I agree with Ric that all observable bodies in the Universe are spherical. Like I said before, they make some pretty compelling arguments that things are not as advertised.

          Just because I can’t answer their questions does not result in the conclusion of a flat earth. It means I cannot answer their questions.

          Adm. Byrd’s stuff is strange as well. I don’t know what to make of it.

        2. The nazi military tentatively believed that the earth was an interior sphere and thus the british navy at scapa flow might be visible by pointing an instrument measuring infrared upwards at 45 degrees inclination. And they actually tested it on the Rugen island during ww2
          Sounds incredible but there was an ambition among some nazi ideologues to discover nonjewish physics and maybe that drove them to give it a go.

  12. Does anyone have any opinions on the whole Jared Fogel (the “Subway Guy”) thing? Besides the salacious and horrifying nature of it, this thing smells to high heaven to me.

    1. Recynd, I don’t know much about him. They “say” that the cops have known for some times that he’s a pederast. Apparently he admits it and entered into a plea bargain.

      The part that is consistent is that he’s rich and they’re covering up for him. There are many besides him for whom they have at least as much evidence that are out walking among us.

      1. FIVE YEARS the FBI’s been “investigating” the case, with an amateur informant digging around for info relating to his pedophilia (7 year olds count as pedophiles).

        The victims only got $100k each, not to mention that at least some of them (if not all) were victimized while he was being actively investigated. Wouldn’t the FBI bear some responsibility?

        I’m wondering if this story isn’t totally fabricated…we’ll see.

        1. Could be. It seems like the entire leadership of the UK, including the Royals as well as the U.S. version, has been under investigation for decades. It isn’t a “what” thing, its a “who” thing.

          I read that he “liked” little boys. Who knows? Of course the FBI would bear responsibility. If they were ever held accountable for their misdeeds there wouldn’t be a naked elm tree in D.C..

          My “shoot from the hip” (Yosemite Sam) theory is that when this happens he either did something they’re getting even for, refused to do something they asked him to do, or they have some other agenda and he fits the bill.

          So, does he have money? Yes (check). Do people with money normally get popped for anything? No (check). So what’s really going on?

          The settlement is also suspicious. They said he had homemade kiddy porn films. They said he had dozens of victims that they knew of. That’s not much to go around and the sentence is pretty light.

          So the poster boy for Subway ends up the star of “Chubby does Dallas”. Is there nothing left to believe in? (sigh!)

        2. I know, Ric, me too. I’m going to dig around…I’ll be sure to let you all know if I find anything of interest.

          At this juncture, I have a multi-hypothesis: (1) (as laid out so well by Lop) blackmail, extortion, or punishment, (2) a diversion tactic, or (3) to promote an agenda, whether it’s a pedo agenda or a mental illness one.

          No matter, I’ll see what I can find and report back (nothing too lascivious, I promise.).

          Cheers. And thank you all for not being pigs (or, if you are, for keeping it to yourself).

        3. Recynd, you got my interest up. I read something that said a lady actually got him to confess all of this by befriending him. She went to the FBI with the information as it involved foreign kids.

          She says that it took them OVER TEN YEARS to act on it. I don’t know about you but I see a pattern here.

        4. So it’s an incredibly bizarre story, and, at least at this early juncture, I agree with Ric that this whole story is a lie. But FWIW:

          We have this woman, Rochelle Herman-Walrond, a radio health-talk-show host, who claims to have been introduced to Fogle in 2007, when he made an appearance on her show to promote the American Heart Association, and they struck up a friendship. At some point early on in their friendship, Jared confided to Rochelle—on tape—how hot he found young children. Rochelle claims she was justifiably horrified, but played along (??) to see if Jared would further incriminate himself. He did. At some point, she decided to take her information and evidence to the FBI.

          The FBI then recruited Rochelle to be an informant in the resulting investigation; Rochelle claims she received some minimal training in what she was and wasn’t allowed to say, and how to record their conversations, and it was off to the races. Through numerous phone calls (did they ever meet in person?) over a more than four-year period, they developed a relationship based upon procuring children to abuse…a relationship which was ostensibly monitored by the FBI.
          A close associate of Jared’s, Russell Taylor, who was the director of the “Jared Foundation”, a charity that raised awareness about childhood obesity, was arrested on similar charges in April-May 2015, so Jared’s arrest couldn’t have come as much of a surprise. Jared himself was finally arrested in August and a plea-deal has been arranged—though it’s not yet official, as he’s not yet been sentenced (that’s scheduled to take place in November)—Rochelle has granted an exclusive interview and access to her tapes to the Dr. Phil show. She, of course, presents herself as a brave warrior, though not unscathed, as she is forever damaged by her stint into “investigative journalism” (her words): she no longer trusts anyone and now sees the world as a very dangerous place.

          So this, in a nutshell (and without all the sordid details) is the most recent development in what is, in fact, a long and complicated story. What hasn’t been much discussed is the fact that Jared was married from 2001 to 2007, and then again from 2009 to 2015 (divorce papers were filed when he was arrested). This second marriage produced two children. There has been no mention whether either of these two women saw any indication of his proclivities.

          It’s worth mentioning that when Jared was in college (before his stint as Subway spokesman), he ran a thriving cottage industry from his dorm room, renting out his extensive library of pornography to other college students. Interesting that Subway didn’t bother to do any sort of background check on who was to become the face of their product (“Eat Fresh!”).

          In any event, the federal plea deal that Fogle has agreed to includes paying $1.4M in restitution to his victims ($100K per victim). For a guy with a net worth of $12M-$15M, that seems like a drop in the bucket. Like I mentioned before, what responsibility to the victims does the FBI bear?

          My kid and I watched the Dr. Phil interviews with this woman, Rochelle. We both found her story to be unbelievable: how in heaven’s name did she string Jared along for nearly FIVE years on promises and dirty stories? On the tapes we heard, she sounded none-too-convincing, just a lot of “Then what?”, “Well, you know,” and “How would you go about doing that?” in a semi-sexy voice. Who goes to the FBI first to report a crime, anyway? She procured her evidence through an illegal wiretap…what’s the deal with that?

          This nasty story does not exist in a vacuum: we have the ongoing Bruce Jenner and Bill Cosby stories, Jimmy Savile and the Royal pedos, and the debut of the new documentary “An Open Secret”, just to name a few. It makes one wonder if maybe Robin Williams and perhaps Phillip Seymour Hall were scared of something…or someone(s).

          One has to wonder: why now? And why would the revelation be handled in this way (on “The Dr. Phil Show” for crying out loud)?
          If the story…or elements of it…isn’t true, then what purpose does it serve? Entertainment? Distraction? Maybe we get this story instead of a mass shooting this month?

        5. it’s pretty apparent Jared was part of their “Circle” for many years.

          The whole story is a lie. He was Throw to dogs from his circle pf pervert friends.

          The question is Who did he piss off?

        6. By the way, on second thought, if you were aware that he was buggering little kids for TEN YEARS after he began talking with you, would you just continue and be patient?

          It’s a wonder she didn’t put “the secret sauce” in one of his sandwiches.

        7. Wow Recynd, that’s a great synopsis. At the end of the day motive is what its all about, isn’t it?

          Those memes, “gay rights”, trans-sexuals, pedophiles, etc., are obviously being put in front of us more and more. It seems obvious that those things are part of an attempt to undermine the most basic commonly held beliefs in society.

          My thought is that the reason for this is to place people in a state of chaos and replace their beliefs with those of their own. The more exposure to pedophilia one gets the less the impact.

          There are already attempts to claim that pedophilia is a “choice”, as is sexuality and gender. There are groups that are lobbying for laws that make it possible for them to prey on children legally.

          I think you are correct to be suspicious of this story. This “journalist” would have to be a corrupt as Jared to allow him to continue his exploits knowingly for all those years. Anyone with an iota of ethics would not cooperate with a deal like that.

          We all know that this stuff happens. It has always happened. Whether it is on the increase, or not, is impossible to say. What is on the increase are the discussions about it. That is heathy, in my opinion.

        8. Your right Lophatt,

          Now that Sodom is Legal, now the left are going to dish out Gomorrah on us……..

          The asteroids are a coming. The one today is a shot across our bow.

        9. Ric, you may be pleased to know that Subway got its start in Bridgeport, CT and is headquartered in Milford, CT. The one surviving founder is a multigazillionaire who lives in Danbury, CT.

        10. Why is it every psycho in the news is from Connecticut?

          Maybe we should build a fence around it first, the the border.

        11. Well, this album has a song called “The Devil Came From Kansas”. Can’t make it work with “Connecticut”. I tried:

        12. Thanks lophatt, perhaps it’s a blessing that Connecticut does not fit into the lyrics of songs. Kansas does, such as Kansas City Here We Come (KS or MO?) for the women:

    1. I’m sorry Mick, I’m not a big fan of “the Catholics did it”. Not just because I am one, I just don’t buy it. It’s the same for the spooky Jesuits. They get blamed for everything the Jews want to avoid.

      Having said that, do I think there are intrigues within the Church. You betcha. Is it a monolithic controlling monster? No! If there’s an agenda it isn’t theirs.

      Their are tons of information similar to this out there. I read everything. I find a lot of valuable stuff that way. What I also find is that the conclusions are usually faulty.

      It all comes down to premises. If you have a faulty premise the best information in the world isn’t going to help. These Catholic bashers come from a long line of Protestant apologists and Jews. I know the type, I was raised Protestant.

      These things are a nifty diversion from the real culprits. It’s the last ‘acceptable’ form of bigotry. When I run across someone who actually knows something about the Church I read them. That doesn’t happen too often.

      There ARE a lot of conspiracies and there is infiltration. It certainly doesn’t surprise me one bit that that would happen. I think I agree with Fr. Malachi Martin on this. I used to think he was a nut. After I learned more about him I came to respect him.

      1. There will come a time we agree on many more things.

        Lophatt, I am not a big fan of it either, it is just that I realize who controls Rome and always controlled Rome. Constantine the first Caesar wrote the bible and it was plagiarized from the Vedas. It all came about to bolster a flagging Roman empire.

        Rome, the pope, the Vedas, bibles, great quotes, etc do not compare with what is inside you. The Christos can only arise within us.

      2. Lophatt the jews are the jesuits.

        Immorality was rampant in the Papacy and the Church. John XXIII [a Jew (1410-1415)], called by some the most depraved criminal who ever sat on the Papal Throne, guilty of almost every crime: as Cardinal in Bologna, 200 maidens, nuns and married women fell victim to him. As Pope, he violated virgins, nuns, lived in adultery with his brother’s wife, was guilty of sodomy and other nameless evils, he bought the Papal office and sold Cardinalates to the children of wealthy families.”
        “Pope Gregory VII [a Jew] decided it was no murder to kill excommunicated persons. This rule was incorporated in the canon law. During the revision of the code, which took place in the 16th century, and which produced a whole volume of corrections, the passage was Page | 189 allowed to stand. It appears in every reprint of the Corpus Juris. It has been for 700 years, and continues to be, part of the ecclesiastical law.”

        The fake tales that church was at odd’s with the Jews is all nonsense many Popes from their images are racial Jews, you can still line their pictures up beside photographs of notorious racial Jews today and see they look like twins. “the 1486 publication of the Malleus Maleficarum by the Dominican friars Heinrich KRAMER[JEW] and James SPRENGER[JEW].”- Sir l.Gardner “Realm Of The Ring Lords”
        This was the document and manifesto that 50 to 100 hundred thousand innocent Gentiles many women where hideously torchered and murder by “Witch Finders” for decades under. And it was created, published and pushed by Jews.

        1. Mick, I’m not sure how to answer this. I’m not ignorant of history. I do not equate the Papacy with “The Church”. I am not, generally a “joiner”. Before I joined I gave it a lot of thought and I did a lot of research and soul searching.

          I do not believe the Church to be a controlling influence in some world conspiracy. Indeed, the farther one goes from orthodox Christianity the more legalistic and absolutist it becomes. In short, it becomes Jewish.

          The Jews have tried to destroy the Church since its inception. That has not lessened over time. This is from both within and without. Just as most people have a spoon-fed, incorrect idea of “The Inquisition”, people’s imaginary images of the Church abound.

          Basically, very little that is said about the Church surprises or alarms me. With more understanding of what a church is and what it is supposed to do it wouldn’t alarm the alarmists, either.

          Statements like “the Jesuits are the Jews”, are not helpful. That is demonstrably untrue. Were there Jesuits who were Jews? Absolutely. See “Inquisition” above.

          If you are looking for Jewish plots against Christianity you might want to look at the “Scofield Bible” story. My pet theory is that the very reason we have a divided Christianity is solely due to Jewish attacks.

          But, this is a HUGE subject. Anyone is free to think whatever they like. It is enough for me to say that I am personally happy with my choice and have my reasons. I do not feel the need to defend my choices.

      3. Note these two Jew Kramer and Sprenger were members of the Dominican Friars. When the Spanish government found that Jews within Spain had been working with the Moors against them as a 5th column [like the Jews always do even in America all the Communist spies and agents where Jewish] they launched an investigation into the Jews in Spain that the Vatican was screaming at them to stop [note the Vatican on the other hand ordered and encouraged the inquisition against Gentiles wiping out millions] and many Jews where given sanctuary by the Vatican on papal orders. It was also the Jewish Jesuits who ran much of the inquisition as well.

        What the Spanish investigation much like the later FBI investigations into the Communists in America found. All the high ranking Catholic Clergy in Spain where racial JEWS! Guess why the Vatican were trying to halt the investigations.

        And do you really think that this was just limited to Spain when even the Popes where racial Jews, and as evidenced here the created of a hate manifesto wrote by two racial Jews in the Catholic Clergy lead to a real HOLOCAUST of tens of thousands of Gentiles most being murdered by being burnt to death. It’s also a little known fact under the Catholic rule the Jews even got a free Jewish Kingdom [Septimaniain] Europe.
        The Vatican also had the original Pagan Monarchy killed off as much as possible and replaced with criminal proxies loyal to them. The most famous case being the murder of King Dagobert of the Merovingians by the Vatican. His crown was then usurped by the Vatican and given to Pepin the Fat of Herstal of whom had been one of Dagoberts trust mayors, it the killer was acting on direct orders from Pepin himself. This set up a situation in Western Europe where the Aryan Royal lines where one by one usurped by the enemy

    2. Dub,

      Please tell me, even if you have to lie.

      The world and the moon and the sun are ROUND.

      Nature only produces basically round objects

      Not Squares or Pyramids.

      1. Ric
        You are the best. An old indian used to say, the eyes, the nostrils, the mouth, the bodily orifices, the planets, the sun and the moon are round. Even the solar system is round. Therefore the creator must love circles!

        Stay with me Ric! I will never let you down!

  13. RIP Halloween. They are coming for you, our local school did away with the parade for good. No party and if you wanted to watch the Charlie Brown halloween special you needed your permission slip signed.

    Good grief!

    1. I find it fascinating the Left want to abolish Halloween.

      Isn’t this right down their alley?

      Maybe it exposes them too much. I just don’t get it.

      It certainly is from the point of Morale

      Maybe Skull and Bones just want to keep the party at Yale?

      1. Sort of conjures up images of Hilary, naked ’round the cauldron at midnight. “Aye, me precious. There’ll be the death penalty for Whitey…, and climate deniers. Bwahahahaha!”

        1. Lophatt, pls no more pictures in my mind of a naked Hillary…Haha

          I have a dog in this fight.

          My Birthday is tomorrow…yes Halloween.

          When I was young, my uncles called me a Warlock.

          This confused me. All this devil sh&t.

          I maybe wrong and just self serving but when I was a young lad I went into a study of Halloween, for myself.

          It was originally Hallowed Saints Day and as all holidays get corrupted this one did to.

          So, I don’t know. Am I the Devils son who loves God?

          Just a thought.

          I’d tell you all how old I’m going to be but I can’t count that high nor remember..hehe

        2. I was born on easter. One day away from april fools day. The doctor said you will have an easter bunny or a fool to my mother.

          At times my birthday falls on easter. I walked into the office one day and the secretary said hey happy easter. I said thanks but it is also my birthday, the Gods have sent you a sign. She just shook her head!

        3. Recynd,
          You just said you were a Scroogie! But not for birthdays? lol

          I think you’re an inveterate party girl, is what you are.

          Happy birthday, Ric! Spooky, or not! have a good one, bud.

        4. I am, if anything, an enigma. (Ha! J/k, as my kid would say.)

          I was once a party girl, but I done partied her out a minute or so ago. Now, I’m lazy and an introverted hermit. It rather suits me 🙂

        5. Yeah, I get it. It was just funny how close your two posts came together: the “Bah Humbug!” and then like two seconds later “Birthday balloons!” lol

          It was like 180 degrees.

          You are an enigma.

        6. Recynd, I tried to comment on your story on the other thread. I wanted to congratulate you for getting your act together. I’ve been through similar straights.

          When these threads get long my computer seems to balk. There is so much latency that it’s like watching a glacier melt to type. Then, the post just disappeared. I gave up.

          What I tried to say was that I have no regrets and you shouldn’t either. Other people don’t know the things we do. You can explain forever but experience counts for something.

        1. Five bucks a pooch. Do they have a “Go Fund Me” site set up? That place is like a black hole that money just disappears into.

      2. You can see a lot by just looking

        Who is more foolish, the child afraid of the dark or the man afraid of the light?

        “The real hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal.

        “Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does.

        They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental sickness.

        These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted.” -Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited

    2. Of course being realistic Halloween was an ancient druid custom. There was not a devil attached to it.

      It is all a part of Constantine the great writing the bible, the british born war lord who wrote the great book of hebrew dominance to keep a flagging Roman empire together. He was the first Caesar and fudged just a tad.

      In fact he studied the Vedas in India and was quite the plagiarist. The fact that his histrionics are quite accepted in the west is no great award backing western hegemony. Well, I concede, the Walmart crowd finds him fascinating. Yomoma at the walmart votes also.

      As far as the Vedas, my own people at times cause me to turn away in disgust. What we do not know is terrifying.

    3. I confess: I am a Grinch: I’m not a fan of ANY of the holidays (maybe I’m a Jehovah’s Witness, deep down?). Besides suspecting that they are all Pagan in nature, they all create overblown expectations, artificial/manufactured joviality, and obligatory consumption/gift-giving.

      When my sisters and I started exchanging checks for the kids on Christmas, we decided to stop altogether. Last year, I didn’t even put up a Christmas tree (though my husband did put a string of lights on the house). This year, like two years prior, Christmas will be spent nursing my husband through a recovery from neck/spine surgery. Tra la. The last time, the Christmas tree didn’t get put away until April or May.

      Enjoying a Thanksgiving dinner with family and friends is nice, but I stay at home the whole weekend following…no Black Friday (and Saturday and Sunday) madness for me.

      And Halloween? My neighbor’s probably think one of us is a child molester: every year, we shut the lights off and pretend to not be home.

      Bah humbug. Wake me up when it’s January 2.

    1. This is no ‘coincidence’. 12 mysterious deaths of Holistic doctors in the past 5 months. Multiple biking related deaths.

      The classic way to conceal a murder is always an ‘accident’ of some kind. And a person on a bike on the street is very vulnerable.

        1. Cape Cod is a popular place for tourists and week-enders on bikes. Why this holistic doctor? It most likely was no accident.

          The trend of falling from high places started before bankers made it fashionable – and now holistic doctors.

          Admiral James Forrestal in 1949:

          CIA employee Frank Olson in 1953:

          Anderson Cooper’s brother. On ABC in September 2011:
          “For the first time publicly, Cooper, 44, openly talked with his 87-year-old mother, former fashion designer Gloria Vanderbilt, about the day in 1988 his troubled brother threw himself off the balcony of the family’s 14-story New York City penthouse. At the time, Cooper was 21.”

  14. Is Sophia Smallstorm is working for the car and oil companies? When she says that roundabouts and making roads better for people to use bicycles is a bad thing, she is saying that there is no way to make changes. All changes are bad. I would suggest that if we made the car companies pay for the roads like we make the train companies pay for their rails then we could have free train travel.
    By the way when the Moors ruled southern Spain, Jews Christians and Muslims lived a more human life.

    1. No place to leave any comments on that phony ‘blog’, either. It gets posted to by the psyop person in charge about once a month, for appearances sake, apparently. Makes you wonder why they even bother, so many people are now on to them…

    2. A titanic war is taking place on over this book. Everyone who has read the book has posted a 5-STAR review. A blizzard of 1-STAR reviews is appearing from a legion of phonies, trolls and shills. Check it out. You won’t believe it. Unreal!

      Here is an astonishing interview with Scott Wilson, who attended Wolfgang’s FOIA hearings and exposes aspects of Sandy Hook and the Newtown community that have simply floored me. This is another show you are going to what to widely share:

      The Real Deal Ep #124 More Light on Dark Recesses of Sandy Hook”

      Please send links to the Prologue and my video introduction everywhere you can. I am doing everything I can to expose the truth. But I can’t do it all by myself. We have a huge advantage over the perps: We can prove what we claim. They can’t.

      “Prologue: Sandy Hook: Was it reality or an illusion?”

      Video intro to NOBODY DIED AT SANDY HOOK

      Even if you are unable to compose a review of the book because you have not yet read it, you can still contribute by going after the trolls and shills who are attacking it. If you care about 9/11 Truth, GET INVOLVED!

        1. There was a similar “Truth-bomb” campaign against Kaitlin Roig’s and Scarlett Lewis’s books. They each received hundreds of scathing reviews and one-star votes.

        2. It’s actually working. There are a lot of rebuttals to those 1-STAR trash reviews and new 5-STAR reviews. We are beginning a come back. We must keep it up. Everyone should contribute what they can. Thanks.

  15. This is really hard to watch and may have already been posted. I’m waiting for any of the Obamas to find out who this female victim is and invite her to the White House. #AllLivesMatter #WarOnWomen

    1. What a beautiful sweet girl representing her “people” so well.

      O’ Hussein must be proud of the New Freedom to express themselves he has created.

      PC, no one will say a word and she will walk free.

    1. This will go a long way toward their goal of advancing to “Level II” operatives of the New World Odor. This was a chance to win valuable prizes and collect military hardware.

      These smaller areas really have to go all out to compete with the large towns for Uncle’s dollars. There may be a way to go straight to “Level V” if they stage a meteor strike, with terrorist gassing, of course.

    1. It was one of his better performances. He rather flopped as a surgeon and I didn’t like his gig at selling cereal.

      This may be a comeback. I’ll be watching the Oscars.

      1. Were they ever published at all? All mine have been eventually published except for one.

        The difference now is my posts never go to “moderation” where you can still see them in the thread; they just don’t show up at all.

        1. One time, when I was explaining about religion, it didn’t even let me finish but disappeared right in the middle. I don’t look for the posts, assuming that they are so Good that they have gone to truth Heaven. I like the discipline of stating complex matters in a simple concise way. It clarifies theory.

        2. No, I never saw them again. I am teaching myself to make a copy before I hit the button (just in case). As Mark said, I’ve had that happen as well. Right in the middle of writing (poof!), gone.

        3. WordPress will never let you post it again anyway.

          “Looks like you already posted that,” it says, all snotty-like.


  16. Washington Square Mall shooting – copy the address and put on the website – zero incidents! 10202 E Washington St, Indianapolis, IN

    Also, Bridgewater Plaza in Virginia where the reporter and cameraman were allegedly shot – zero incidents. 16430 Booker T. Washington Highway, Moneta, VA, 24121

    Umpqua College – zero incidents. 1140 Umpqua College Rd, Roseburg, OR 97470

    Marysville Pilchuk High School – zero incidents. 5611 108th St. NE Marysville, WA

    Ironically, the Ottawa Citizen and the Calgary Herald both ran multiple stories about Marysville Pilchuk on October 23, 2014, the day before the alleged event. Google Calgary Herald, Marysville Pilchuk shooting and it still shows them as running articles prior to the event.

    Photos: Washington school shooting – Calgary Herald…school+shooting/…/story.html
    Photos: Washington school shooting. Ted S. Warren, AP Photo 10.23.2014. Marysville-Pilchuck High School. People embrace in front of school busses at a …
    Raw video: School shooting reports in Washington, north of … › News
    Oct 23, 2014 – Students and faculty are seen evacuating after reports of a school shooting at Marysville-Pilchuck. … Search. Calgary Herald Calgary Herald logo … Read Article · Tshidi Manye and The Tree of Life, The LIon King, Calgary, August 2015 …. Raw video: School shooting reports in Washington, north of Seattle.
    Marysville-Pilchuck High School – Calgary Herald…School/…/story.html
    Oct 23, 2014 – A woman talks on a phone at a church Friday, Oct. 24, 2014, where students were taken following a shooting at Marysville Pilchuck High ..

    Photos: Washington school shooting – Ottawa Citizen…school+shooting/…/story.html
    Photos: Washington school shooting. Ted S. Warren, AP Photo 10.23.2014. Marysville-Pilchuck High School. People embrace in front of school busses at a …
    Marysville-Pilchuck High School – Ottawa Citizen…School/…/story.html
    Oct 23, 2014 – Students are evacuated from Marysville-Pilchuck High School by law enforcement following a shooting.

    1. That IS strange. Maybe they get “extra credit” with the DHS folks if the “go live” on TEE VEE. Apparently they haven’t convinced the pencil pushers who keep official records to join the fun.

  17. Dr. Fetzer, why waste your valuable time and considerable intellectual prowess responding to these phonies whose only real purpose is to bait the leaders of perceptive inquiry into ACTUAL hoaxes.
    Of course they spout off in order to minimize your effectiveness and derail discussion lest the truth be realized. Someone pays them to do it, in spite of all protestations to the contrary, and most of them have several sock-puppet accounts.
    I hope you can develop the ability to resist responding to these azzho1ez. Those of us who value your insight will put these paid liars in their place. Thanks for all you have done and will do.

      1. Thanks, Toni. With my background and abilities, I thought I would be the best positioned to deal with Greg’s nonsense. But I wasn’t going to keep at it indefinitely–just long enough to expose the fakery and deception.

      2. Same here. Is this democracy…….or what? I think that Patrick won’t be receiving the coveted “Talktotrees” seal of approval this year.

        It’s funny really. When you’re stuck in a room with someone you don’t want to listen to all you can do is stick your fingers in your ears and chant mantras. When you’re on the internet you can click to another site. Seems simple enough to me.

        1. I am dying of throat cancer and my tolerance for these paid disruptors is, to say the least, at an all-time low. I have several daughters and grandchildren whose future I am pretty worried about if the country is going to be held in sway to these frauds. Why should people seeking actual and truthful information tolerate them gladly or go to a different site?
          That does Professor Tracy and all serious inquiry a great dis-service. In my opinion, such obvious foolery as flat-earth assertion should be banned from the boards.
          You may be bored by the investigations into the very real hoaxes, false flags etc, but many are not, or are just beginning their own investigation; these paid sock-puppets make it that much harder to keep the discussion coherent. Let THEM go elsewhere.

        2. talktotrees,
          So sorry to hear of your plight. It certainly makes your impatience with “Greg” understandable. Thanks for telling us.

          In my opinion, it is not a waste of time to hear Dr. Fetzer refute the doubters. That was the enjoyable part for me. He’s a good role model.

        3. talktotrees,
          I wrote you a response. Hopefully, it’ll come up soon.

          In the meantime, I hope you are comfortable.

        4. I’m very sorry to hear of your troubles. I will pray for you and I wish you well. I know that when we are not feeling well it is easy to become irritated.

          Nonetheless, people have a right to post what they will. There are enough topics here for you to find one that is more to your liking.

        5. True words of wisdom.

          I add my prayers to you and your family talktotrees.

          You are the one not to waste your time when you know it’s worthless.

          God Bless

        6. I think, on balance; you are correct.

          On balance such obvious deceit should be openly and plainly banned ie ‘We are not allowing these posts because….if the situation changes we will change our policy….’

          My view is that TPTB are paying people to pretend to support this fake ‘alternative theory’ so as to poison the well of internet research regarding real events & situations.
          [Sorry if that’s an unoriginal thought but I’ve not been here for a while….]

          Failing that we should identify these posts for what they are,
          ‘Here we have another paid misinformant pretending to be advocating an anti-authority view…we allow the post for information and reference only….he is paid money to post and so has unlimited ‘time’…we do nlt allow turds to float in the punch bowl…’

          God Bless ‘talkto…’

  18. I would not consider myself a “researcher”, much less much of a writer but there is an area of the Sandy Hook hoax that seems to have gone under the radar. Of course it may be nothing but it regards an article I have felt drawn to again and again. Not because the article is riddled with anomalies or strangeness but because of it’s mundane nature. I am intrigued because of the perfection of the story. Too perfect.

    What we are presented with in the article is supposed to be the obvious behaviour of a loving mother but as we read the article more carefully it becomes clear that the writer is painting a picture of herself as a neurotic with a wide-eyed, deranged psychopathy about the presentation of her children and family. Looking at the photographs presented with article I am surprised the family is not grinning in sheer terror at this matriarch.

    The article I am referring to is the defence piece of the photoshopped Emilie Parker image. The article came out later as a piece of insouciant, dismissiveness about those “silly” conspiracy theorists.

    I have some experience with photography and when we look at getting a decent picture at sunset then you are dealing with a two hour time frame: the hour before and the hour after. If this woman is the enthusiastic photographer her biography would have us believe then it is a simple rule she would be aware of. I don’t really have the time or the writing skill to give this the attention it deserves but I would encourage another researcher to take a look at this post.

    Check the time between shots from the EXIF all happening over the period of a few minutes either side of the “exact” astrological time for sunset in that area of the world. If this story is true then this photoshoot would be the actions of a psychopath, dragging her family to a fairly ordinary part of the desert (the perfect location she says) at the exact time of sunset, then photoshopping her child because of imperfection in the portrayal of the nuclear family unit. It’s madness that this would occur in the life of anybody holding a modicum of sanity. I implore anybody interested to read the story, check the EXIF and look at the weirdness of this narrative for proof, if proof ere needed, that this is a fiction beyond the realms of possibility.

    I believe that the psychotic nature of the agents running the show is writ large through this piece and we get a sense of what they are trying to portray as ordinary middle-class family life in the US. It misses the mark by the same distance as the staging of the Lanza home. This is the work of men, painting a vision of Stepford women with a psycho-sexual mysoginy that is creepy to say the least.

    1. KMX6: I am not a photographer, so I don’t have too much of value to add, but your post is very interesting.

      I will say that Alyssa’s post doesn’t strike me as oddly as it does you, because there ARE some peculiarities about Mormon culture (esp. Utah-Mormon culture) that are…unflattering. Especially when taken to an extreme, which Alyssa clearly does.

      I don’t know if “Alyssa Parker” or the Parker family exists; but I do know this sort of “psychopathic perfectionism” does. I don’t know why it seems to be uniquely Mormon (it most certainly isn’t doctrinal), but there you have it. I agree, it’s weird and wrong.

      I appreciated your comments.

      1. Well said. I have heard a rumor that they now live near me. I am going to check this out. I know a couple of Mormons who could probably confirm or deny this if I handle it right.

        She comes across as a sort of neurotic stepford-Utah type. Of course, SHE would not be making any decisions like this whatsoever. “Robbie”, being ruler of the roost would have to make such a momentous decision.

        I worked for one once who’s wife would call him to see if it were alright to purchase a head of lettuce. He isn’t the only one I’ve observed this tendency in either.

        If the piece is designed to convince us that the picture was real, I’m not convinced.

    2. Your right. Her narrative about taking that picture makes her sound like a nut job. And why, of all the pictures this “photographer” would have taken of her family, would she publish the one where she photoshopped her deceased child into the picture?

        1. Thanks for your comment on that. Just taking the opportunity to also beg forgiveness for saying “astrological” time of sunset rather than “astronomical” time of sunset. Shameful mistake !

    3. The bahstahds DO leave many a trail in these hoaxes, don’t they? Good catch. Think of the evil mindset that these ‘parents’ subject those little girls to. As a father of five daughters, it staggers my sense of decency. And as a citizen of the US, it makes me want to find a country that doesn’t torment its law-abiding citizens in this way at the behest of unseen and unnamed powers.

    1. Yeah, there’s a piece in the “Daily Mail” as well about how “conspiracy theorists” are tormenting her. It’s so sad.

      1. Yes, Seattlites are all torn up for these victims. I read the article online, as I refuse to pay for such a stupid publication, but saw the physical copy a few hours ago and was suprised to see that the story was top front page. Amazing.

        1. I hear ya’. I just happened across a link to the article. I wasn’t interested in what the Kardashians are up to.

  19. Believing that the earth is flat is INSANE. It is equally insane from a non informed public school indoctrinated point of view to believe that Sandy Hook was a staged drill, 911 was not done by 19 hijackers or that nobody died and nobody got hurt at the Boston fake bombing. Most people dismiss these things and REFUSE to look at evidence. I was the same way for 6 months of being pestered by flat earth believers to look. I outright refused! Then I started making comments as to why its IMPOSSIBLE because of this fact and that fact and continued to refuse to look. HOWEVER when I did look I realized my reasons it was impossible were all based on false assumptions and life long mind programming, I looked further. I researched for weeks and now months on end, day and night trying top prove the earth was a spinning wobbling ball flying through space. It is not. The earth is flat and does not move. Here is a web page with all the proof you need, you just need the courage and commitment to take the time and look. Start with “200 proofs the earth is not a spinning ball”. I ask you to then to provide me with just ONE SINGLE proof the earth is a ball. Good luck with that because there are NONE! The Earth is FLAT and does NOT move.

    1. Dirth,
      Your a little late to the party.

      We all put our heads together and compromised.

      The world is a Triangle and Tortoises live underneath.

      The Ice Barriers that keep the Oceans from flowing off the edge into space was just a little..well, too much.

      At least we know how Amelia Earhart disappeared. She went off the bloody edge into space. (no one told her it was a triangle)

      That’s the consensuses here.


        1. I actually decided to one more round on this subject(flat,no spin).

          I was shocked to see in the ’60’s seemingly intelligent scientists on board with this.

          I’m no Scientist or Physicist but I got it in a mere 5 hour study.

          They actually paid to put a Blimp (1960’s) in the air to see if the world would move underneath it. I understand the concept but they failed to realize that the “Floating ” Blimp was going 999 mph and was Not standing still but moving with the atmosphere.

          It’s hard to wrap your head around it but IMHO we are Round, Spinning and Everything is Round and spinning in our solar system and the Universe.

          It’s really hard to understand, step back and focus on it. I understand.

          It just maybe easier to buy Flat Earth, No Spin for some.

          This is why we have equilibrium. Everything is going the same speed that’s why in a dead calm even the trees stand still, not a hair on your head moves.

          I hope I don’t bring “them” back that don’t really want to know and are just starting trouble.

          This isn’t they only issue these “people” are doing to divide Us.

          Whatever..I talk too Much

        2. Wow, 2 rants down the memoryhole. Not in Mod, just Gone.

          WordPress wants to discourage us.

          I’ve said before, Tracy get your own dot com you control.

          Run some ad’s

    2. Oh Boy. More irrelevant nonsense from a paid flat-earther troll. Give it up. dudes. Even dumb people don’t buy that bullpuckey these days, and we won’t be wasting any time on your lame disinfo.

      1. I say this flat Earthery is an attempt to ‘poison the well’ of the internet as an alternative to MSM as information source.

        Sorry if that’s not an original contribution.
        I’ve not been here for a while.

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